Bolt Action vs. Semi Auto

RnderSafe said:
Cadet Seaman said:
And yes Hollywood played a big roll in calling bolt actions "sniper rilfes" but you pretty much snipe with anything. Put a scope on an M60 and put the fire selector on semi and your good. As long as you can get a long range, controled shot.

It sounds more like Hollywood gave you this idea. In reality, this is not so.

Well, no. Sgt. Carlos Hathcock USMC Ret. gave my the idea.
 
Missileer.......Were we talking about the difference between a bolt action rifle and semi/automatic one. Quite often as a sniper you may have a number of targets to take out quickly which would need a few rapid shots, one for each target and in this situation a self loading rifle really comes into it's own, as you have several shots en route before the first one has arrived.
 
LeEnfield said:
Missileer.......Were we talking about the difference between a bolt action rifle and semi/automatic one. Quite often as a sniper you may have a number of targets to take out quickly which would need a few rapid shots, one for each target and in this situation a self loading rifle really comes into it's own, as you have several shots en route before the first one has arrived.

That may be but the only rifles we put night vision scopes on for snipers were bolt action. Most snipers can operate a bolt almost as fast as a semi-auto.

If you will open this site and make a count of bolt action vs semi, you will find more bolt actions.

http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm Sniper rifles of the world
 
Missileer said:
LeEnfield said:
Missileer.......Were we talking about the difference between a bolt action rifle and semi/automatic one. Quite often as a sniper you may have a number of targets to take out quickly which would need a few rapid shots, one for each target and in this situation a self loading rifle really comes into it's own, as you have several shots en route before the first one has arrived.

That may be but the only rifles we put night vision scopes on for snipers were bolt action. Most snipers can operate a bolt almost as fast as a semi-auto.

If you will open this site and make a count of bolt action vs semi, you will find more bolt actions.

http://www.snipercentral.com/rifles.htm Sniper rifles of the world

Not true Missileer. We put scopes on the M16A1 for a snipers spotter in Veitnam and still do, do the same for the M21.
 
Cadet Seaman said:
Not true Missileer. We put scopes on the M16A1 for a snipers spotter in Veitnam and still do, do the same for the M21.

I can put a scope on a water pistol, it won't make it a SWS.

The M16 is not, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle, just as the M60 isn't.

Depends. The M2 did quite well. But its really a difference of opinion.

A difference in practical and real world experience.
 
RnderSafe said:
Cadet Seaman said:
Not true Missileer. We put scopes on the M16A1 for a snipers spotter in Veitnam and still do, do the same for the M21.

I can put a scope on a water pistol, it won't make it a SWS.

The M16 is not, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle, just as the M60 isn't.

Depends. The M2 did quite well. But its really a difference of opinion.

A difference in practical and real world experience.

Have you read Dear Mom: A sniper Vietnam? In the book they use the M16 as a SWS. It is a true story, writen by J.T.Ward.

You could put a scope on a water pistol and call it a SWS.

What really dfineds what a SWS is? Its a weapon that can be sniped with. Lenardo Davinci almost invented a sniping rifle to "snipe at the enemy from the walls of Veince". Snipers where used in the Civil War, they used Springfield rifles with long copper tubes called "scopes: to snipe an enemy, they wore green coats to match the landscape.

So what is a SWS? You can snipe with any weapon, the KAR 89k was used as a sniper rifle. It was just a rifle with a scope. Same with the M16.

Sgt. Carlos Hathcock used a M2 Browning as a SWS, and had gotten the world furthest shot until recently.
 
Missiler........I went to war with a bolt action rifle and I know just what they can, are can't do. Also all the British weapons can be fitted with night scope. Also all the SA.80 range are issued with an optical scope, also I fought with an AK 47 which also had a spring loaded bayonet which was great fun, but the metal they made the bayonet out of was pure rubbish.
 
LeEnfield said:
Missiler........I went to war with a bolt action rifle and I know just what they can, are can't do. Also all the British weapons can be fitted with night scope. Also all the SA.80 range are issued with an optical scope, also I fought with an AK 47 which also had a spring loaded bayonet which was great fun, but the metal they made the bayonet out of was pure rubbish.

Yeah, a lot of Countries just hated to get rid of their bolt actions. Germany and Japan kept them through the war. I guess the brass thought semi-autos wasted ammo but the M1 was a great infantry weapon. There were accurized M1s but I think they were just used in target matches. About night scopes, I was referring to VARO and LITTON night vision companies. We had rifles loaned to us for testing, I don't know what they put them on when they left us. You can see the little short scopes on the M16s in clips of Iraq, they are what make the infantryman "own the night". But not every soldier with a night scope is a sniper, it just gives him an edge.

Just an aside, I worked on contract for a small company that was building a 20mm machine gun. It could be fitted with a laser dot scope in the ground mode. All I did was design the electronic control box for motors and solenoids to operate the bolt and sear mechanisms also the belt feed motor and high voltage to fire the round since they don't use firing pins anymore. It fired about 4 to 5 rounds per second.
 
Cadet Seaman said:
You could put a scope on a water pistol and call it a SWS.

What really dfineds what a SWS is? Its a weapon that can be sniped with. Lenardo Davinci almost invented a sniping rifle to "snipe at the enemy from the walls of Veince". Snipers where used in the Civil War, they used Springfield rifles with long copper tubes called "scopes: to snipe an enemy, they wore green coats to match the landscape.

So what is a SWS? You can snipe with any weapon, the KAR 89k was used as a sniper rifle. It was just a rifle with a scope. Same with the M16.

Sgt. Carlos Hathcock used a M2 Browning as a SWS, and had gotten the world furthest shot until recently.

:lol: M16 is not now, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle. A water pistol is not now, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle.

Hathcock did in fact use a modified M2 to make his longest shot.

Even though the capability is there for mounting a scope & it is incredibly stable on a tripod, it is not a sniper rifle. You can mount a scope on an M240, M16, M4, M249, etc. that in and of itself does not make a sniper weapon. Is it capable of accurate long-range shots? Certainly. Is it capable of sub MOA shooting? I don't think so. Even the M82A1 SASR (Special Application Scoped Rifle) is not a true "sniper rifle."

I don't know why people want to turn things into something they aren't.

There are differences between a sniper rifle, DMR, and a lucky shot.

There are fellas that can take down targets all day long with an M16 and an ACOG. Doesn't make him a sniper, and it doesn't make an M16 a sniper rifle.

So to answer your question, no .. not just anything can be an SWS/sniper rifle.
 
RnderSafe said:
Cadet Seaman said:
You could put a scope on a water pistol and call it a SWS.

What really dfineds what a SWS is? Its a weapon that can be sniped with. Lenardo Davinci almost invented a sniping rifle to "snipe at the enemy from the walls of Veince". Snipers where used in the Civil War, they used Springfield rifles with long copper tubes called "scopes: to snipe an enemy, they wore green coats to match the landscape.

So what is a SWS? You can snipe with any weapon, the KAR 89k was used as a sniper rifle. It was just a rifle with a scope. Same with the M16.

Sgt. Carlos Hathcock used a M2 Browning as a SWS, and had gotten the world furthest shot until recently.

:lol: M16 is not now, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle. A water pistol is not now, nor has it ever been a sniper rifle.

Hathcock did in fact use a modified M2 to make his longest shot.

Even though the capability is there for mounting a scope & it is incredibly stable on a tripod, it is not a sniper rifle. You can mount a scope on an M240, M16, M4, M249, etc. that in and of itself does not make a sniper weapon. Is it capable of accurate long-range shots? Certainly. Is it capable of sub MOA shooting? I don't think so. Even the M82A1 SASR (Special Application Scoped Rifle) is not a true "sniper rifle."

I don't know why people want to turn things into something they aren't.

There are differences between a sniper rifle, DMR, and a lucky shot.

There are fellas that can take down targets all day long with an M16 and an ACOG. Doesn't make him a sniper, and it doesn't make an M16 a sniper rifle.

So to answer your question, no .. not just anything can be an SWS/sniper rifle.

I agree that in order to have a ture sniper rifle you must have a fine tuned, bolt-action weapon, but sniping just doesn't pertain to bolt actions.
Also the M2 Hathcock had was a M2 with a scope mount, nothing more.
 
Cadet Seaman said:
I agree that in order to have a ture sniper rifle you must have a fine tuned, bolt-action weapon, but sniping just doesn't pertain to bolt actions.
Also the M2 Hathcock had was a M2 with a scope mount, nothing more.

I have used both bolt and semi-auto SWS - I prefer bolt. Yes, there are some semi-auto riles out there that can stand up with many bolt rifles in accuracy, but given the choice on a real world op, I would choose bolt every time. Reliability is also an issue.

As for the M2, there was a little more to it than that. That said, he was a hell of a shot, and one great Marine. It was a true pleasure to have met him.
 
RnderSafe said:
Cadet Seaman said:
I agree that in order to have a ture sniper rifle you must have a fine tuned, bolt-action weapon, but sniping just doesn't pertain to bolt actions.
Also the M2 Hathcock had was a M2 with a scope mount, nothing more.

I have used both bolt and semi-auto SWS - I prefer bolt. Yes, there are some semi-auto riles out there that can stand up with many bolt rifles in accuracy, but given the choice on a real world op, I would choose bolt every time. Reliability is also an issue.

As for the M2, there was a little more to it than that. That said, he was a h**l of a shot, and one great Marine. It was a true pleasure to have met him.

Well I'd go bolt for long range but, semi for medium and short. M24 or M40A1 for bolt and M21/M14 for semi.
 
Cadet Seaman said:
Well I'd go bolt for long range but, semi for medium and short. M24 or M40A1 for bolt and M21/M14 for semi.

Yes, and this is because the M21/14 are DMRs, better suited for medium/ short range.
 
RnderSafe said:
Cadet Seaman said:
Well I'd go bolt for long range but, semi for medium and short. M24 or M40A1 for bolt and M21/M14 for semi.

Yes, and this is because the M21/14 are DMRs, better suited for medium/ short range.

Yes, and they are in a snipers arsenal.
 
I've wondered, how often does U.S armed force use these drum magazines in M16/M4 cos I've seen these dual drums and they're something like 120 rounds ? just a thought.
 
Armyjaeger......Have you ran around a Battlefield with a drum of 120 rounds in it and then tried to hold up that weapon and shoot accurately. All you can do with this is hose down an area and even then it is hard work and not very accurate.
 
lol back on the subject i would have to go with the bolt action for any weapon that is shooting for a one shot one kill. You dont need a semi-auto say if your going after ONE high ranked officer or something of the sort. semi-autos like the .50 beretta are used little for anti-personal sniping unless it is at a GREAT distance or the target is behind a wall :D. In that case though the round really isnt doing the damage but the debris hitting the target.
 
Back
Top