Bloody Revolt in a Village Challenges the Rulers of China - Page 3




 
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Boots
 
April 17th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion
lol , it doesnt mean its a rumour because you can't accept the truth

holy h**l, there are hoardes of news agencies reporting what their reporters saw with their naked eyes and this above guy sitting in canada is telling that its a rumour, lmfao, you are truly a communist
A Naked eye of a man giving you the story can exagerrate. The reporter stating that millions of peasants revolting can be a misleading number. I don't think the official report is accurate.

Second thought, "you are truly a communist" is a assertion that shows lack of knowledge distinguishing between an Economic System and a Political System. If China was actually to block media coverages of the incident, therefore they are an Authoritorian State. A Communist is a supporter of the Communism Economic System. An Economic System cannot be used to judge an action that is political. You should settle the two differences.

The actual report is this: there have been reports of Peasant revolts in the rural areas of China resulting from the increasing gap between the rich and poor widens. The Government have done many means necessary to contain the situation.
April 17th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Ok...


I am back from shopping. I will address raj's question. However, I am no historian, politician, nor economist. I will present some information many of you may find interesting. I will try to be accurate but can't guarantee I am totally right.

China's rural infrastructure is like County control Township, Township control Village. Each branch has its own government control its subordinates. China has been in a rush of reform in agriculture as well as industrialization after 1980. Tremendous amount of pressure has been instilled upon the local and rural governments. Many bad habits and old practices from Mao's era also lingered on such as: appropriation of properties for the national and industrial infrastructure improvements, report nonexisting progress for rewards by the representing bodies. Furthermore, to satisfy improvement demands from the provincial or national government, many rural governments instill unauthorized ad hoc taxes to create funds for improvements. With untransparent spending plans, rural tax payers have no ideas how their taxes are being spent: for school, road, or enrich the officials. It opens up many opportunities for corruption and misused funds. people are getting angry about the ad hoc taxes and lack of knowledge on spending of their tax money.

Now, you might ask how did rural governments can create unauthorized taxes. We have to look at how China's rural develop in the past 20 years.

China's rural development is seperated into three zones:Eastern, Central, and Western. Eastern is more of industrial rural area while Central is agricultural rural and Western is more of subsistence (rough). China's rural policy is decentralize one that allows local governement to keep majority of their income for internal development at the local level. This is a heaven for the Eastern rural communities for their natural geographic and climate advantageous. Within a short time, eastern industrial rural became wealthy. their retained income are being used to develop roads, schools and other social programs. However, as time passby, eastern industrial rural communities started to exploit the loop holes in the tax laws by creating many "extrabugetary funds" to evade Tax obligation. Of course, tax contribution went down dramatically especially on many government owned enterprises. To earn extra funding from the governement, many industrial rural communities continue to ask the national governement for money while hiding their true income potentials. Thus, the lesser fortunated areas like Central and Western get even lesser funding from the national budget committees.

For Central and Western rural communities, rough geographic makups make the area far from fast-paced reforms of the east. Generated income from production is far below comparing to its neighbor at the east. Plus, suplement income from the national governement is far from enough for the aggressive reform programs becasue of tax evasion schemes. Local governement tend to add unauthorized ad hoc taxes to fund their improvement projects. With not so impressive production and different fees, naturally rural people are angry about the unfair treatment from the local representing bodies while seeing their eastern neighbors prospering.

Also, China is lack of a system or systems that are capable of calibrate different programs for different area and situation. Many rush of improvements are not carefully plan out for each communities. Thus, you see some many angers towards local governments becasue of their inefficiecies, inflexibilities, corruption, and slow-to-react manner.

The above are just some sum-up problems. The ad hoc tax is a natioanl problem that China's national governement is looking into. The government is also looking into standardize all tax procedures and development policies for rural communities to align its modernization goal. I think the protests are some needed wak-up calls for China to speed up the process.

P.S. sorry it got so long. If you disagree please do ask and speek up. Thanks.
April 17th, 2005  
CABAL
 
 
Quote:
Also, China is lack of a system or systems that are capable of calibrate different programs for different area and situation. Many rush of improvements are not carefully plan out for each communities. Thus, you see some many angers towards local governments becasue of their inefficiecies, inflexibilities, corruption, and slow-to-react manner.

The above are just some sum-up problems. The ad hoc tax is a natioanl problem that China's national governement is looking into. The government is also looking into standardize all tax procedures and development policies for rural communities to align its modernization goal. I think the protests are some needed wak-up calls for China to speed up the process.
China does lack a system that is capable of macro controlling the many programs launched by the Government. Since the Western regions of China still remain under a Command Economy and have never changed since the 1950's-60's, it is definite that it would result in ineffecient production of goods and services demanded most by the rural communities.

Since the Chinese Central Government have realized the major problem and prompted to crack down corruption, the next step would be to reform, develop and to modernize the Economic System in the Western Rural Regions.

This problem have been seen during Germany's years right after the 1989 Reunificaton between the East and the West. The problem still remains as for today although improvements have been made to prevent a possible unstable situation in Eastern Germany.

As for my respectable Economics Professor have once said, "Economics is what controlls the behavior of the majority. Money is survival."
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Boots
April 17th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
The biggest underlying matter and the biggest reason for such intense interest in this rebellion is probably more because the World would like to see if China learned anything from their mistakes with the Tianamen Square massacre of 1989. The Western world is anxious to see China begin transitioning to Democracy too. Seeing the masses rise against what they are calling despotism and corruption (in effect) reminds one of the American and French Revolutions. It corruption in the system is already well in place and China needs to start a gradual transition to Democracy, or they are headed for their own version of the French Reign of Terror and the Russion Revolution. A horrible bloodbath, in other words. Ultimately, until government leaders are completely accountable to their own people, there is no stopping the government from becoming increasingly corrupt at all levels. In China, that absolutely cannot be instantaneously done. But why not at least begin. If the people of China see that their destiny will be increasingly determined by them, this is at least a defusing action for such rebellions.

When you are coutry as big as China, this needs to be a very well thought out gradual process, but there is absolutely no reason it cannot begin now.

Consider that any number of people might like to complain about President George W Bush. But Americans who don't like him can't say that anyone forced him upon their country. He was elected by popular majority, so if somebody doesn't like the direction his Presidency has taken, all they need to do is get more involved in the political process. That and they have their own vote.
April 18th, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Yes...


I second the thought of beginning some kind of democratic reform because people want to be heard and takebn care of. With economic success, the demand for freer expression is bound to happen. That is why China is so hungry for management talents because many sectors are like "dish of loose sand", like Dr. Sun Yat Sen once said.

I think it is time for China to take that route.
April 19th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
Quote:
lol , it doesnt mean its a rumour because you can't accept the truth

holy h**l, there are hoardes of news agencies reporting what their reporters saw with their naked eyes and this above guy sitting in canada is telling that its a rumour, lmfao, you are truly a communist
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lol, first of all im the exact opp of communist, i am a capitalist and always believed in the system

im not stating its a rumor, but saying that its a high chance that it indeed is a rumor

if uve got the mine explosions with pics to prove it, then wheres the pics of this probelnm?
April 21st, 2005  
Damien435
 
 
I always thought it was interesting that almost all communist systems were atheistic, if there is one thing that can make a communist government work it is religion. Religion is a very powerful, binding force, trying to replace the church with the state is not going to work. But in China (as far as I understand) it is different. Confuscian beliefs are still firmly implanted in China. This emphasizes that everyone has their place in society, one can not move up or down, but one should fill their role as bast they can. This could be why the Chinese are so accepting, or perhaps the correct word is tolerant of Communism. It falls in line with their traditional beliefs.
April 21st, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
the way china was ruled after 49, was quite similar to the previous emperial system of governing, which i must say is both a good government and a bad government

since it depends on whether u have a capable emperor or a lazy drunk for a emperor

certaintly the personality of emperors have always been what affected chinese economy and society
April 21st, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien435
I always thought it was interesting that almost all communist systems were atheistic, if there is one thing that can make a communist government work it is religion. Religion is a very powerful, binding force, trying to replace the church with the state is not going to work. But in China (as far as I understand) it is different. Confuscian beliefs are still firmly implanted in China. This emphasizes that everyone has their place in society, one can not move up or down, but one should fill their role as bast they can. This could be why the Chinese are so accepting, or perhaps the correct word is tolerant of Communism. It falls in line with their traditional beliefs.
The problem with that is that Confucism isn't truly a religion. Many people will debate that point, but Confucism doesn't go into defining the relationship between God and mankind ... Heaven and Earth ... all that much at all. Only insofar as the Emperor came to be acknowledged as the Son of Heaven and the primary medium of all interaction between Heaven and Earth, but those concepts really aren't part of Confucism at all. They existed long before Confucious was born (though there were only Kings in those days, and no Emperor yet).

Confucism is a lot more of a detailed philosophy about how to live your life as a part of society. So is Communism and yet nobody is claiming Communism is a religion.
April 21st, 2005  
Boobies
 
 

Topic: Yes


Thunder you are right about Confuciusm (Social orders) is a philosophy instead of religion. This is where Chinese general public got mixed up over the course of history.

Throughout the history, the ruling groups would combine religion, Confuciusm, and myths to rule over people because religion by itself was not firm enough to secure control. Fear and order were the only ways to sustain stabilities. Moreover, over the years, religion, confuciusm, and myths bornd an offspring:superstition. No longer the people were able to sperate facts from all of the above. that is why you hear Chinese sayings lot of things like prejudged life, preordained class, or scuccess based on celestial power and such. Throught this ruling, individualism was rooted out, tolerance of political and social inequalities prevailed no matter how the law spelled.