Bizarre - biblical references on Gunsights!

perseus

perseus

Active member
Gunsights' biblical references concern US and UK forces


_47144352_acog_brit.jpg
Britain's Ministry of Defence it was unaware of the markings

Coded references to Biblical passages are inscribed on gunsights widely used by the US and British military in Iraq and Afghanistan, it has emerged. The markings include "2COR4:6" and "JN8:12", relating to verses in the books of Corinthians II and John.
Trijicon, the US-based manufacturer, was founded by a devout Christian, and says it runs to "Biblical standards".
But military officials in the US and UK have expressed concern over the way the markings will be perceived.
The company has added the references to its sights for many years, but the issue surfaced only recently when soldiers complained to an advocacy group. ....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8468981.stm

If true and not a spoof looks like they are fighting a holy war after all!
 
Yeah I was just reading this on Muckraker, this is being to make the news rounds...

Al-Qaeda has been saying for years saying that its struggle against the West is a religious war against the "crusaders", and these dumb hicks at Trijicom start put biblical quotes on the weapons of American (read: Christian) soldiers. Apparently the yokels never thought to consider that doing so would prove al-Qaeda's claim as the Iraq/Afghanistan war as a religious as being correct? Not to mention violating the US Constitution about a seperation of church and state, and the Army's own rules against proselytizing (and in a Muslim country to boot, that really takes to a whole new level of stupidity).

Trijicom's answer: those who are criticize us are not Christian. Ok fine I am not a Christian (by their standards) I can live with that, and by the same token let me say that Trijicom is a company run by utter, f*****, morons. I mean seriously, way to go dumbass! Here we are trying to convice the 1 Billion+ Muslims of the world that we are NOT fighting a religious war in Iraq and Afghanistan and meanwhile you seem to be providing the enemy with 1000 new al-Qaeda recruitment videos explaining exactly the opposite. Why don't you just hand out al-Qaeda literature while your at it?

Its like Springfield handing out copies of Mien Kampf with every M1 Rifles they made during WWII.

Two words: CONTRACT CANCELLED. Maybe that will knock some sense into them, I mean seriously, just how stupid can a company be?

and BTW, Thanks to the soldiers who complained and brought this to the public attention. If Trijicom is so stupid as to put US soldiers lives at even greater risk just so that they can proselytize in a Muslims country, then they shouldnt be doing business with the Army. Seriously this takes the bloody cake!
 
Last edited:
mmarsh said:
I mean seriously, way to go dumbass! Here we are trying to convice the 1 Billion+ Muslims of the world that we are NOT fighting a religious war in Iraq and Afghanistan and meanwhile you seem to be providing the enemy with 1000 new al-Qaeda recruitment videos explaining exactly the opposite. Why don't you just hand out al-Qaeda literature while your at it?
Click to expand...

Poetry, mmarsh, poetry.
Stupidity has no limits.
 
As much as I am not pro-religion and think the whole company sounds like a bunch of religious whack jobs surely the only important thing here is the effectiveness of the item in question, I find it difficult to believe Al Qaeda or the Taliban are going to be more concerned about a biblical marking on a gun sight than the fact that the guy holding it is shooting at them.

The idea that this may be used against captured troops is an interesting argument since none of these groups has been overly disposed toward them in the past the possibility that they are going to do something worse than killing captives seems a little irrelevant.

I think over all it is a storm in a tea cup and if the defense departments are so worried about it then there is little preventing them from removing the text as it is apparently in raised text.
 
MontyB said:
As much as I am not pro-religion and think the whole company sounds like a bunch of religious whack jobs surely the only important thing here is the effectiveness of the item in question, I find it difficult to believe Al Qaeda or the Taliban are going to be more concerned about a biblical marking on a gun sight than the fact that the guy holding it is shooting at them.

The idea that this may be used against captured troops is an interesting argument since none of these groups has been overly disposed toward them in the past the possibility that they are going to do something worse than killing captives seems a little irrelevant.

I think over all it is a storm in a tea cup and if the defense departments are so worried about it then there is little preventing them from removing the text as it is apparently in raised text.
Click to expand...

Your forgetting one thing, some of these items are going to be issued to Iraqi policemen an Afghan soldiers, who are ardent Muslims and by nature deeply suspicious of Christians. What do you think their reaction is going to be when they see this? The Knights of the Crusades used to inscribe biblical passages on their shields, the is no different.

The other problem is that putting biblical passages violates both the US Constitution and the Armys own rules about proselytizing.

The problem is this creates nothing but problems with no upside. This is not the first time evangelicals have tried to use the military in order to sermonize. Its inappriopriate, very foolish and dangerous.
 
Last edited:
"Like Springfield handing out copies of Mien Kamph" Now that's overboard, Mauser handing out copies would be closer, but the Afghan language Bibles are a seperate subject. It would be difficult for a typical person in Iraq or Afghanistan to realize 234568753jn8:15 is a religious code, I'd think. The Constitution only bans the establishment of an Official Church, "seperation of Church & State" was a thought expressed in a private letter. As soon as I saw the ABC report I knew Lib pantys will be wadding up. At the same time I'll go along with leaving that stuff off, if for no other reason than upsetting Libs.
 
A satirical view from the daily Mash!


AMERICAN and British soldiers who take down Taleban fighters with a single shot have received thank you letters from Jesus, it emerged last night.


jmug1.jpg
They also get a mug​
The Son of God has written to each of the trained killers to congratulate them on their skill in wiping out muslims cleanly and efficiently from up to 1500 yards away.

The Prince of Peace said: "There are few things more satisfying to me than a well-executed kill shot by an English-speaking Christian, using state-of-the-art technology.

"As I said to my beloved apostles as we rested in the Garden of Gethsemane 'get thyself into a nice, comfortable position with thy rifle butt nestling in thy shoulder before taking aim methodically and letting out a long, slow, deep breath as you squeeze the trigger'.

"And when we see the halo of blood erupting from the back of the non-believer's skull, do we not also see the glory of My Father?"

Coalition snipers have enjoyed increased success since being issued with new rifle scopes that have a little pair of bright red horns painted on the end so that they can be positioned over the soon-to-be-exploding head of their Muslim target.

Nathan Muir, chief executive of manufacturers The Psychopath Corporation, said: "We also include a biblical code on the side of the scope. I saw Pulp Fiction a few years ago and the bit with Samuel L Jackson quoting Ezekial while holding an enormous hand gun gave me a very powerful erection."

Jesus added: "Many congratulations to you and I hope you continue to kill as many human beings as you possibly can before you die."

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/army-snipers-get-thankyou-letter-from-jesus-201001202395/
 
mmarsh said:
Your forgetting one thing, some of these items are going to be issued to Iraqi policemen an Afghan soldiers, who are ardent Muslims and by nature deeply suspicious of Christians. What do you think their reaction is going to be when they see this? The Knights of the Crusades used to inscribe biblical passages on their shields, the is no different.

The other problem is that putting biblical passages violates both the US Constitution and the Armys own rules about proselytizing.

The problem is this creates nothing but problems with no upside. This is not the first time evangelicals have tried to use the military in order to sermonize. Its inappriopriate, very foolish and dangerous.
Click to expand...

1) I am somewhat doubtful that the Iraqi and Afghan personnel are going to be getting anything but the export version of these weapons.

2) If they are getting these things then they can either:
A) Remove the text as it is raised lettering.
B) Add a clause to the purchase contract that says they will be delivered without the text.
C) Buy from someone else.

On the whole if this breaks purchasing policies then I have little doubt it will be rectified as the world is full of bureaucratic types looking for something to justify their existences and pay.

On the whole I still find it difficult to accept that this will do anything for the opposition as they already believe it is a crusade, I doubt they are going to change their opinion if the text is removed.
 
Last edited:
I think Mmarsh is more concerned that even just a story will be used by the enemy to further their cause. When they get this news, they might check all captured weapons for it and turn it into a propaganda showcase.
I guess it's not a big deal to us, but it's really about what the enemy thinks.
 
The best part, as always: "Britain's Ministry of Defence was unaware of the markings".

Yeah, and you care for your men, right?

Rattler
 
Looks like New Zealand is removing the refrences & Australia is looking at the situation. Note that it says the Aussies have had them for a while & hadn't noticed them, what are the odds that some person in Iraq or Afghanistan would have if people had just STFU.
 
George said:
Looks like New Zealand is removing the refrences & Australia is looking at the situation. Note that it says the Aussies have had them for a while & hadn't noticed them, what are the odds that some person in Iraq or Afghanistan would have if people had just STFU.
Click to expand...

what supposed to mean?

we were probably to busy looking through the sights instead of at them...
or we dont know much about the bible
ignorance is bliss...
 
Last edited:
rattler said:
The best part, as always: "Britain's Ministry of Defence was unaware of the markings".

Yeah, and you care for your men, right?

Rattler
Click to expand...

they probably only cared whether they worked or not...

but anyway what are the chances that a terrorist would see the markings, be able to read them or even know what they mean?

terrorist aren't the brightest of people.
 
One: Trijicon has been putting these in the stock numbers of their optics for at least twenty years.

Two: The references are hard to find unless you know where to look and they are basically cryptic it looks like this xxxxJ:2:13XXXXXX

Three: Trijicon are illuminating optics all biblical references refer to light as the optics are illuminating optics.

Four: Trijicon did not make optics solely for the militery, on seperste production runs. The military contracted for standard production runs and Trijicon delivered.

Five: Trijicon is removing the references as per their press release of 01/22/2010.

Just me as long as they give me the best combat optic that helps me put rounds in the enemy they can paint "All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster Keeper of the Giant Meatballs" on it in Day-glo Pink paint.
 
03USMC said:
One: Trijicon has been putting these in the stock numbers of their optics for at least twenty years.

Two: The references are hard to find unless you know where to look and they are basically cryptic it looks like this xxxxJ:2:13XXXXXX

Three: Trijicon are illuminating optics all biblical references refer to light as the optics are illuminating optics.

Four: Trijicon did not make optics solely for the militery, on seperste production runs. The military contracted for standard production runs and Trijicon delivered.

Five: Trijicon is removing the references as per their press release of 01/22/2010.

Just me as long as they give me the best combat optic that helps me put rounds in the enemy they can paint "All hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster Keeper of the Giant Meatballs" on it in Day-glo Pink paint.
Click to expand...

1. Doesn't matter, its still wrong. No proselytizing in the military means exactly that. We dont want US soldiers thinking they take their orders from God and not the POTUS. We are trying to destroy religious extremism not join it.

2. And yet the Soldiers found them anyway. Still doesnt matter for reason #1.

3-4. Same as #1.

5. Do you know when Trijicoms initial reply was to the compalint "those who are complaining aren't Christian". In other words : "Go F*** yourself, we dont care, if it offends you or endangers the troops on the ground". It
was a complaint from the soldiers to their superiors (through a support group), and after the media caught wind of it, and after Gen.Patreaus publically condemned the practice, that they agreed to stop. Its pretty obvious what happened, Trijicom was told to stop by the Army..."or else".

But think that's exactly the point. Trijocon should just sell the goddamn optic and leave the sermonizing for church.
 
mmarsh said:
1. Doesn't matter, its still wrong. No proselytizing in the military means exactly that. We dont want US soldiers thinking they take their orders from God and not the POTUS. We are trying to destroy religious extremism not join it.

Okay wrap your high and mighty brain housing group around this. ACOG's were purchased COTS, meaning commericaly obtained. They weren't bid with specific specifications and terms. DOD purchased the best combat optics available for the purpose needed. Trijicon were one of these. DOD contracted for a number of optics made from standard runs. Those standard runs were made on the same tooling with the same system Trijicon has always used.

2. And yet the Soldiers found them anyway. Still doesnt matter for reason #1.

Doubtin a troop found this, I've used ACOG's from Trijicon for years and never knew this. Some Journo found out about it and made an issue of it.


3-4. Same as #1.

Your number 1 is a knee jerk reaction and in and of itself is proselytizing from the opposite end of the spectrum. If you really believe that any service man belives that he is taking orders from God instead of his CO (POTUS is so far up the chain of command he's not even relevent to this discussion) because of a barely readable series of numbers on the base of an optic you need professional help.
5. Do you know when Trijicoms initial reply was to the compalint "those who are complaining aren't Christian". In other words : "Go F*** yourself, we dont care, if it offends you or endangers the troops on the ground". It
was a complaint from the soldiers to their superiors (through a support group), and after the media caught wind of it, and after Gen.Patreaus publically condemned the practice, that they agreed to stop. Its pretty obvious what happened, Trijicom was told to stop by the Army..."or else".

Mountain out of a mole hill the stock number can be removed in 10 seconds with a file. But instead of it being pointed out it's turned into a PC get everybodies liberal thongs in a twist BS operation.

"Supposedly" came from a support group. WTH are POG's doin with ACOG'S when I gotta beg borrow and steal them for my guys ? There is more to this than ABC is reporting.

In reality Trijicon needs the contract, the economy in Michigan needs them to have the contract, but yeah lets cancel a contract on the best combat optic out there, deny the troops the best gear, raise the unemployment rate some more, because we are worried that it might offend the same guys that scrawl Allah Akubar and Death to Infidels on their AK's.

It could have been dealt with without the the BS PC spin that all you knee jerkers look for something to damn the military for made of it.



But think that's exactly the point. Trijocon should just sell the goddamn optic and leave the sermonizing for church.
Click to expand...

It's over all the righteous BS indignation can stop. No more Jesus Rifles, No more Jesus Scopes.
 
George said:
Looks like New Zealand is removing the refrences & Australia is looking at the situation. Note that it says the Aussies have had them for a while & hadn't noticed them, what are the odds that some person in Iraq or Afghanistan would have if people had just STFU.
Click to expand...

See problem solved, if you don't want them you get them removed and if you do want them or don't care you leave them there.

I think the thing that concerns me most is that we seem more concerned about upsetting the enemy than using the best equipment for the job, perhaps we should hire the Taliban as "consultants" so we don't upset them further?

Perhaps we should be scouring all of our manuals and processes just in case we have something else that will upset them, where does it stop?
 
MontyB said:
I think the thing that concerns me most is that we seem more concerned about upsetting the enemy than using the best equipment for the job, perhaps we should hire the Taliban as "consultants" so we don't upset them further?
Click to expand...
Extra motivation is the last thing they need.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top