Bismark vs. Yamato - Page 10




 
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May 21st, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian

Prinz Eugen even, nuked twice, capsized and hit with ocassional Pacific storms, and her superstructure is still supporting her upturned weight.
Yep here is a picture of her taken from the air in 2006.



The front third of the ship is hanging off an underwater cliff but it is still supported by the stern with the screws and rudder out of the water, the port propellor was salvaged in 1979 and now resides at the Laboe Naval Memorial in Germany.
May 21st, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
I gotta say, Hitler was a little nuts on making Battlships like the Scharnhorst have tiny (for a battleship) 11 inch guns.

But as for heavy cruisers the Germans really knew how to build em!

And that's without STS steel and armies of shipyard workers the U.S. had.

The only battlewagon I think to compare to these warships in terms of value per size is the South Dakota's , amazing warships built UNDER the Washington treaty, their armor belts are very ingenuitive (we need a little more American Innovation like that these days.) in terms of staying within legal treaty parameters.

In in the same oceans of Heavy weights outside treaty standards they did very well.

Luckliy, unlike Germany's heavy hitters we still have a perfect example of the South Dakota around today, as well as the Iowa's.

It's a shame that little effort has gone into exploring the Axis warships in this era, as they are equally important in terms of archaeological signifigance in my opinion.

As well as for forum debates.
May 21st, 2012  
Warplane101
 
 
Yossarian I seen ur post good info and Monty B with lopping shell coming from the bismark another good point but.... 3 things 1 the bismark and yamoto could have struck the radio tower and bridge instead of the the ammo storage 2 have we failed to realize these two ships have an entire navy and the air force watching there back 3 we would have to compare the other ships and aircraft too 🇩🇪🇬🇧 🇯🇵🇺🇸
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May 21st, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian

It's a shame that little effort has gone into exploring the Axis warships in this era, as they are equally important in terms of archaeological signifigance in my opinion.

As well as for forum debates.
Indeed I notice that they have also located the Graf Zeppelin in fairly shallow water as well...

Hitler's Showpiece Aircraft Carrier Found

Divers working for the Polish oil firm Petrobaltic on Monday discovered the rusting hulk of Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin, sunk in mysterious circumstances by the Soviets after World War II. Its exact location had been a riddle for almost 60 years.
Experts in the Polish Navy, using robots and sonar, confirmed on Thursday that the wreckage really was the Graf Zeppelin. The 260-meter (850-foot) ship had been a showpiece of Hitler's navy, but it never went into battle. Intended to carry 42 planes, the vessel was begun in 1936, launched in 1938, but never finished before German troops had to scuttle it in 1945. It was "a grandiose technical achievement," military historian Ulrich Israel told SPIEGEL ONLINE, "mainly when you consider that the Germans had no examples to work from to build such a carrier."
Hitler started the war before the German navy finished building its prestige ship. His planners gave priority to building U-Boats, and the Graf Zeppelin had to be towed to Gdansk, where it was used for storage. The Germans finally anchored it in a shallow stream feeding the Oder, where troops blew holes in its hull before they fled the invading Red Army. The Soviets renovated the ship, and moved it -- but how it met its final end is still the subject of controversy.
One story says the carrier hit a mine on its way to Russia. Another says the Soviets overloaded it with war booty, causing it to sink in a storm on the Baltic. But Ulrich Israel -- who's written a book about the ship -- claims the still-unfinished Graf Zeppelin was towed from its final harbor in the German town of Swinemünde in August 1947 and destroyed by Soviet bombs and torpedoes. The Russians, evidently with an eye on the American navy, wanted to practice sinking a foreign aircraft carrier.
On Monday, while sounding for oil deposits in the Baltic Sea, Polish workers discovered the wreck about 55 kilometers (34 miles) outside the Polish harbor town of Wladyslawowo, near Gdansk. According to international maritime law the remains belong to the Federal Republic of Germany, but the German Defense Ministry told news agency ddp that jurisdiction is still under discussion. In the meantime, the ship's mysteries are far from fully solved.
"It's difficult to say why the Russians have always been so stubbornly reluctant to talk about the location of the wreck," Lukasz Orlicki, a Polish maritime historian, told the Times of London. "Perhaps it was the usual obsession with secrecy, or perhaps there was some kind of suspect cargo."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...8857%2C00.html


So there is one Heavy Cruiser more or less sitting on the surface and an Aircraft Carrier sitting in around 250 meters of water.

A website with a lot more pictures of people diving the Prinz Eugen in 1997...

http://www.jlunderwater.co.uk/old_si...ugen/index.htm
May 23rd, 2012  
Warplane101
 
 
Yes but There's lots of aircraft, ships and that what if they went to battle with the bismark and yamoto
🇺🇸+☢+🇯🇵=☠
May 23rd, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
My understanding is that they know exactly where it is and have done a survey of it already.
May 23rd, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Indeed I notice that they have also located the Graf Zeppelin in fairly shallow water as well...

Hitler's Showpiece Aircraft Carrier Found

Divers working for the Polish oil firm Petrobaltic on Monday discovered the rusting hulk of Nazi Germany's only aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin, sunk in mysterious circumstances by the Soviets after World War II. Its exact location had been a riddle for almost 60 years.
Experts in the Polish Navy, using robots and sonar, confirmed on Thursday that the wreckage really was the Graf Zeppelin. The 260-meter (850-foot) ship had been a showpiece of Hitler's navy, but it never went into battle. Intended to carry 42 planes, the vessel was begun in 1936, launched in 1938, but never finished before German troops had to scuttle it in 1945. It was "a grandiose technical achievement," military historian Ulrich Israel told SPIEGEL ONLINE, "mainly when you consider that the Germans had no examples to work from to build such a carrier."
Hitler started the war before the German navy finished building its prestige ship. His planners gave priority to building U-Boats, and the Graf Zeppelin had to be towed to Gdansk, where it was used for storage. The Germans finally anchored it in a shallow stream feeding the Oder, where troops blew holes in its hull before they fled the invading Red Army. The Soviets renovated the ship, and moved it -- but how it met its final end is still the subject of controversy.
One story says the carrier hit a mine on its way to Russia. Another says the Soviets overloaded it with war booty, causing it to sink in a storm on the Baltic. But Ulrich Israel -- who's written a book about the ship -- claims the still-unfinished Graf Zeppelin was towed from its final harbor in the German town of Swinemünde in August 1947 and destroyed by Soviet bombs and torpedoes. The Russians, evidently with an eye on the American navy, wanted to practice sinking a foreign aircraft carrier.
On Monday, while sounding for oil deposits in the Baltic Sea, Polish workers discovered the wreck about 55 kilometers (34 miles) outside the Polish harbor town of Wladyslawowo, near Gdansk. According to international maritime law the remains belong to the Federal Republic of Germany, but the German Defense Ministry told news agency ddp that jurisdiction is still under discussion. In the meantime, the ship's mysteries are far from fully solved.
"It's difficult to say why the Russians have always been so stubbornly reluctant to talk about the location of the wreck," Lukasz Orlicki, a Polish maritime historian, told the Times of London. "Perhaps it was the usual obsession with secrecy, or perhaps there was some kind of suspect cargo."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...8857%2C00.html


So there is one Heavy Cruiser more or less sitting on the surface and an Aircraft Carrier sitting in around 250 meters of water.

A website with a lot more pictures of people diving the Prinz Eugen in 1997...

http://www.jlunderwater.co.uk/old_si...ugen/index.htm

Explorer's have noted that diving the Graf Zeppelin is compelety empty in terms of internal furnishings and crews articles. Being as she was mainly used for storage and never really had a full compliment of crew and operational supplies.

Which is unusual to say the least, unlike many other war wrecks this one in particular doesn't have the "soul" of it's counterparts.

Unlike the Yorktown for example, the Zeppelin does not have that human presence, no human articles, just a big empty ship sitting in the mud.

There is no sense of loss, so it makes it ripe for internal exploration of the wreck since the only disrespect that can be done is against the designers.

And I'll admit I am curious to see the truth behind this mystery as well.
May 23rd, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yossarian
Explorer's have noted that diving the Graf Zeppelin is compelety empty in terms of internal furnishings and crews articles. Being as she was mainly used for storage and never really had a full compliment of crew and operational supplies.

Which is unusual to say the least, unlike many other war wrecks this one in particular doesn't have the "soul" of it's counterparts.

Like the Yorktown for example, the Zeppelin does not have that human presence, no human articles, just a big empty ship sitting in the mud.

There is no sense of loss, so it makes it ripe for interal exporation of the wreck sense the only disrespect that can be done is against the designers.

And I'll admit I am curious to see the truth behind this mystery as well.
I don't see that as odd given that the ship was never finished but that just makes it easier to see the construction of the ship which is important.
May 23rd, 2012  
Yossarian
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
I don't see that as odd given that the ship was never finished but that just makes it easier to see the construction of the ship which is important.

Very true, I was just pointing out that an devoid empty ship doesn't really have a human touch to it.

Like a big empty house so to speak.

But yes, this can be a blessing, without worry of distrurbing human remains you could much more consciously explore the ship's internal construction.
 


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