Biouvacing and living outside (with guns)

A Can of Man

A Can of Man

Je suis aware
Continued from another thread.
Basically it's the continuation of my ramblings about hating tents and issuing hammocks instead.



I knew someone else must have had the same idea. And yes, it's that hammock I was thinking about but couldn't recall the name of.
Actually it's more than just the bugs. The ground in the jungle is very, very damp during the rainy season and that causes stuff like jungle rot, the clay soil gets in your equipment... unpleasant stuff. The jungle is a bad place to be. The only good news is you can find stuff to eat in there easier than most other types of environments. The bad news is... just about everything else.
Sometimes it's so wet that you just can't get a fire going because everything is so soaked. It's so humid sometimes that the instant you pull something out of your ziplock bag it just starts getting soggy.
Still you can survive in this environment for a long time with only three sets of clothing.
 
What are you talking about? When I fought in the jungle, we slept on whatever we could, whenever we could. Bugs were the least of our problems, in fact I don't ever remember worrying about bugs ( I did eat a few though). We learned quickly how to take care of ourselves.
You want to sleep in a hammock slung between trees? Good luck my friend :lol:
Are you talking about combat or going on a safari?
 
Actually the hammock was a musing. Never done it, but I've thought about it.
Damn though in the Indonesian jungle it was soggy as heck.
My concern isn't really the insects though. It's the moisture. I've eaten a fair share of stuff in the jungle. Bugs, frogs... not a big fan of snakes. Some kind of large fart smelling beans.
Still managed to survive fine with two changes of clothes though. One more or less permanently wet and one that was dryish.
All around it was just clay. When it got real wet from rain you couldn't go up some hills without pulling on vegetation. Boots got stuffed up with clay and basically became skids... so I actually switched to wearing soccer cleats and actually it worked pretty well.
Obviously in the jungle I was never with a weapon.
But why don't the expert enlighten us?

Anyways here's what worked for me:
2 sets of clothes. The work/trekking clothes were always wet. I had another set to climb into a sleeping bag with.
Zip lock bags.
Sandals. To dry my feet out when camped.
2 dry socks and underwear
1 set of wet socks and underwear.

And I was thinking to keep my stuff dry I might hang it in a hammock or something. But never actually got around to doing it. What I do know is that Guerrillas in Myanmar or something sleep on hammocks to avoid getting damp.
 
No it's not sarcasm. I'm sure you have a lot of tips and I'd actually like to know. Maybe the next time I go out (if I get a chance) I'll get what I learn in here and apply it out there. I guess it does sound like sarcasm but seriously you are the expert in this field. Who else better knows than someone who has dodged bullets in the jungle?
The "us" is from the other thread this continued from. This thread in itself started less than an hour ago, which is why you and I are the only ones who posted in it.
Rarely am I sarcastic or condescending towards people who've actually been there and done that.
 
OK, then what questions would you like me to address? I can only speak from my training and personal experience. Others may have different but equally valid comments/tips to offer.
 
How often did you actually use tents when you were out in the jungle?
I've felt that tents were useless outside of well fortified camps.
And from what I know of jungle environments I don't think there were many good places to pitch a tent if someone decided that's what they wanted to do anyway.
So how did you stay dry if you didn't use tents? Did you just let yourself get wet with the ground? From what I know, that should be a big no no.
Did you just use your ponchos?
How did you collect water from the environment during the dry season where it could go for a week without rain? Under the canopy where the sun don't shine so well various ways of using condensation don't work very well.
Those kind of things I think.
Plus maybe something you think is important but most other people don't think about.
Just want some expert advice. I'm pretty keen on this stuff and it's a shame there isn't so much time to go outside and avoid snakes anymore.
 
We used tents (shelter halves) whenever we needed something to sleep in and a more permanent shelter was not available. They're not useless, they keep the rain off. They were not very difficult to set up and being as small as they were, they didn't need much real estate.
Staying dry wasn't an option. You just got wet when you had to.
Ponchos are hot and they might keep the rain out but they made you sweat so much that it really didn't matter. We used our poncho as a lean-to cover our fighting position rather than as a personal rain suit.
The jungle I was in didn't really have a dry season, just damp, wet, and wetter. I've only needed to gather moisture through condensation in a desert environment. We always had water supplied to us (didn't taste great but...).
The one big thing I'd say id to keep your feet as dry as possible. Dry them every chance you get and use powder (fungicide) as often as you can. Always take care to have dry socks to change into and even a pair of dry boots (shoes) to change into.
As for snakes, I never had much fear of them. I do have a healthy respect for them though (and when you're hungry, they taste pretty good too).
Another thing, if you get even the slightest scratch, take great care to keep it clean and covered. Infection will set in with astonishing speed.
I hope that helps a little.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
How often did you actually use tents when you were out in the jungle?
I've felt that tents were useless outside of well fortified camps.
And from what I know of jungle environments I don't think there were many good places to pitch a tent if someone decided that's what they wanted to do anyway.
So how did you stay dry if you didn't use tents? Did you just let yourself get wet with the ground? From what I know, that should be a big no no.
Did you just use your ponchos?
How did you collect water from the environment during the dry season where it could go for a week without rain? Under the canopy where the sun don't shine so well various ways of using condensation don't work very well.
Those kind of things I think.
Plus maybe something you think is important but most other people don't think about.
Just want some expert advice. I'm pretty keen on this stuff and it's a shame there isn't so much time to go outside and avoid snakes anymore.
Click to expand...


As DTop mentioned, everyone used to get issued a shelter half along with three poles and five metal stakes with a piece of rope, your equipment along with a fellow soldier would make a two person tent. I have no experience in a jungle environment and based my remark in regards to the jungle hammock on what I have been told from ground pounders serving some training time in Panama. Korea gets pretty darn hot also and it was always a challenge for us NCOs to keep our soldiers dry, especially during the rainy season, you being a former ROK Marine should be a expert at this.
 
In my VERY limited field experience, we dont use tents at all. Instead, I rig up my poncho to a) provide concealment b)provide rain cover and c)(if possible) block the wind. I usually arrange my ruck underneath the poncho to block the wind near my head, since that is the opening in the sleeping bag which has a waterproof cover.

As far as sleeping arrangments, my boots are next to me, my uniform is on me and my weapon is strapped to me. I wear my mitch as it makes an excellent pillow when propped up by an iba. Oh, I also strap stuff together to make it impossible to steal it. People enjoy stealing unsecured equipment.

Granted those are again LIMITED experiences under relatively temperate conditions in a benign environment(20-60 Degrees, limited rains).
 
Personally, I didn't like the shelter halves. If there was an odd-man out, they just humped that much extra weight (their half, stakes, poles, and mat) when he could be carrying more water, ammo, or dry socks. I've never had any problems with a simple poncho and 550 cord, though it requires two trees and that can be a problem if your PB is not in the woods.

$0.02
 
I don't know if American ponchos are any different but ours were almost perfect squares with a hole and hood in the middle for your head. They were terrible to wear in the rain because your legs still got wet from the rain and the rest of you get wet from sweat.
However, if you brought along even two or three sections of your tent pole you could use that and your ruck to create a little shield above your head and chest area. And if you do that you can use what mosquito netting you have and place it over the poncho and it should work well to keep the mosquitoes out. We got issued this milky kind of mosquito repellent which was one of the few standard issue things that actually worked out okay. Any other tips on fighting mosquitoes?
So you guys still use A tents as well? Or some kind of new tent that also uses halves? Ours were made of heavy canvas. Never liked them. When the inspection etc. makes you pack all kinds of crap you really don't need, shoving in an A-tent does tick you off. Especially if you also have to carry the Captain's as well as yours.
Damn Captain ticked me off. Practically traveled with an empty pack (it had some stuff in it but was real light) and he had the fitness of a professional athlete to begin with. It was friggin' impossible keeping up with that guy with full gear. Not to mention, the guy only carries around a pistol. So since we were command platoon we arranged to have our heavier stuff moved by the 5/4 ton truck.
I always thought he carried a full pack until one day he wanted me to fetch his ruck and I nearly rolled down the hill to death because I pulled on it real hard thinking it was heavy.
Foot powder is important. I used talcum powder and I think that worked alright. I'll be sure to get fungal powder the next time around.
Spart, I think that's pretty smart stuff you guys did on FTX. What you did is what I'd do.
But what I also brought along is a supply of moist tissues. When you can't take a bath of any kind very often I've seen those help a lot.
The whole rig with the sleeping bag and poncho could be assembled in less than a minute if you wanted to. The A-tent... urrgh I guess it's good for control freaks who want to see what they're commanding. Never once during a force vs force training exercise did we actually pitch a tent.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
I don't know if American ponchos are any different but ours were almost perfect squares with a hole and hood in the middle for your head. They were terrible to wear in the rain because your legs still got wet from the rain and the rest of you get wet from sweat.
However, if you brought along even two or three sections of your tent pole you could use that and your ruck to create a little shield above your head and chest area. And if you do that you can use what mosquito netting you have and place it over the poncho and it should work well to keep the mosquitoes out. We got issued this milky kind of mosquito repellent which was one of the few standard issue things that actually worked out okay. Any other tips on fighting mosquitoes?
So you guys still use A tents as well? Or some kind of new tent that also uses halves? Ours were made of heavy canvas. Never liked them. When the inspection etc. makes you pack all kinds of crap you really don't need, shoving in an A-tent does tick you off. Especially if you also have to carry the Captain's as well as yours.
Damn Captain ticked me off. Practically traveled with an empty pack (it had some stuff in it but was real light) and he had the fitness of a professional athlete to begin with. It was friggin' impossible keeping up with that guy with full gear. Not to mention, the guy only carries around a pistol. So since we were command platoon we arranged to have our heavier stuff moved by the 5/4 ton truck.
I always thought he carried a full pack until one day he wanted me to fetch his ruck and I nearly rolled down the hill to death because I pulled on it real hard thinking it was heavy.
Foot powder is important. I used talcum powder and I think that worked alright. I'll be sure to get fungal powder the next time around.
Spart, I think that's pretty smart stuff you guys did on FTX. What you did is what I'd do.
But what I also brought along is a supply of moist tissues. When you can't take a bath of any kind very often I've seen those help a lot.
The whole rig with the sleeping bag and poncho could be assembled in less than a minute if you wanted to. The A-tent... urrgh I guess it's good for control freaks who want to see what they're commanding. Never once during a force vs force training exercise did we actually pitch a tent.
Click to expand...

Well, we have not had FTX yet, but in the past three weeks we have spent more nights in the field than in our bay. I love the field though. Moist towlettes are your friend. So are MRE heaters to warm your shaving water. We dont get tents, just the ponchos which are the same as what you describe but ours must be slightly larger than yours. The waterproof sleeping bag cover picks up the 3" or so of my feet that hang out.

I dont understand why some people try to bring their entire wall locker with them...
 
Inexperience.
The golden rule is to bring as little as possible. If you're in a real fight, extras will be lying around soon enough. Assuming you live.
 
whenever we used to do jungle training, we would live in a pit, and sleep under a hootchie (basically a rubber/plastic tarp that was waterproof and folded down to two fifths of **** all)
we would just string them up off a tree, lay out our fart sack and get in
I used to smoke in my sack and i found this to warm me up
after piquet was when i used to get into dry socks, boots back on, do a few push ups for more warmth and straight to be
and just a couple of questions - Who shaves out bush???? and why the hell do you need water, let alone warm water to shave out bush???? sounds a bit pogo to me
 
I knew a few guys, myself included who shaved out in the bush. Obviously not as often as in the barracks but when I did I just used some lotion and took out the razor. Painful, unpleasant, but it got the job done.
We didn't have any FRH and lighting a fire was out of the question.
When outside and we were doing something bordering on serious I didn't smoke. Smoke can be visible from a fair distance, at night cigarette light goes a long distance as well.
I've since stopped smoking.
 
Not a fan of shelter halfs never carried one in a jungle enivorment. Nor the sleeping bag. We used poncho hootches and ranger rolls. Working in the jungle your going to be wet. Ethier from perspiration or from rain, it's a given. If I was packing a ruck this is want I'd pack.

1. Field Jacket w/liner
2. Extra socks as many as you have.
3. 1 pr extra boots
4.Foot powder
5. Gold bond medicated powder (for the crotch)
6. Tube of neosporian, alcohol swabs and various sizes of band aids (ref Tops post and don't depend solely on your first aid kit)

7. extra flashlight batteries
8.magniseum fire starter

Thats in addition to your required gear.
 
SigJohnson said:
[...]and just a couple of questions - Who shaves out bush???? and why the hell do you need water, let alone warm water to shave out bush???? sounds a bit pogo to me
Click to expand...

Well, when Drill Sergeant tells you to shave, you dont ask questions. It doesnt matter if it makes sense to me, I am but a lowly trainee...

Besides, discipline must be maintained no matter what. If we quit one aspect of personal hygeine, why not quite all of them? Or quit maintaining our uniform and equipment?

Oh, and correct me if I am wrong 13, but dont NBC masks fit less tighly if the user has facial hair? Wouldnt want to get a nasty surprise...

As far as warm water, we may as well make it comfortable right? (Its still 20 Degrees out...)

03USMC said:
Not a fan of shelter halfs never carried one in a jungle enivorment. Nor the sleeping bag. We used poncho hootches and ranger rolls. Working in the jungle your going to be wet. Ethier from perspiration or from rain, it's a given. If I was packing a ruck this is want I'd pack.

1. Field Jacket w/liner
2. Extra socks as many as you have.
3. 1 pr extra boots
4.Foot powder
5. Gold bond medicated powder (for the crotch)
6. Tube of neosporian, alcohol swabs and various sizes of band aids (ref Tops post and don't depend solely on your first aid kit)

7. extra flashlight batteries
8.magniseum fire starter

Thats in addition to your required gear.
Click to expand...

I usually carry almost exactly that, only no self medications (basic training). My gold bond powder is usually meant for my feet and not my crotch though. Is there a greater need for that in a jungle temperature?
 
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I've seen some flash lights that you can charge up by pressing down on a trigger several times. A friend in another platoon had it and I thought that was real useful. Our standard issue flashlights had a habit of dying on us, especially during the winter.

Spart, you are right. Your gas mask may not fit as well on your face if you got yourself an elaborate beard growing. If your beard grows as quickly as mine does, this can be a problem. All gas masks inherently leak to some degree. It just delays the effects of chemical agents entering your respiratory system. Every little advantage may mean that you will get an extra few minutes which can be the difference between life and death. If you can, just shave. Sometimes out in the field when it got real hot I wished I could just get rid of all my damn pubic hair because it got real hot down there.

In the jungle, everything gets hot and humid, making it ideal for fungus to grow. You'll want powder around your crotch. I used some talcum powder which were alright but next time around I'll use the medicated stuff.
 
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Spartacus said:
Well, when Drill Sergeant tells you to shave, you dont ask questions. It doesnt matter if it makes sense to me, I am but a lowly trainee...

Besides, discipline must be maintained no matter what. If we quit one aspect of personal hygeine, why not quite all of them? Or quit maintaining our uniform and equipment?

Oh, and correct me if I am wrong 13, but dont NBC masks fit less tighly if the user has facial hair? Wouldnt want to get a nasty surprise...

As far as warm water, we may as well make it comfortable right? (Its still 20 Degrees out...)



I usually carry almost exactly that, only no self medications (basic training). My gold bond powder is usually meant for my feet and not my crotch though. Is there a greater need for that in a jungle temperature?
Click to expand...

In a jungle enviroment crotch rot is a big deal. Any where thats moist and hot and sweaty you need to powder, lest the creeping crud takes hold. I usually go commando also in those types of enviroments.

As far as shaving. Real world trying to shave thru two days growth matted by cammi stick is pain. Water is for drinking. Hot water is for coffee. So you ethier dry shave, shave with a splash of water or if you don't have to you don't shave.
 
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