Battle of Berlin - Page 2




 
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June 27th, 2005  
Macoy
 
Let me tale the story of my home city.

I am from Cottbus. This city is located around 100 km south east of Berlin.

The main battle here tooks place in the city of Guben, located 40 km east of Cottbus. 11 times the soviets tried to establish a brigdehead on the western side of the river "Neisse", and 10 times the Waffen-SS, Volkssturm, Wehrmacht and local Police-Units destroyed that brigdehead.

When the huge soviet artillery arrived and started devastating the city, the Waffen-SS Division Frundsberg was moved to the city of Cottbus, my home city.

At this time the Division had at least around 30 Tiger II Tanks, 40 Tiger I and Panzer IV and several older Tank in service. Most of the Vehicles where damaged or could not supplied with fuel. They retreated to positions in the woods around Cottbus.

Than they where ordered to join the battle of Berlin, so they let my home city defensless. There was no much defense, when the Soviets occupied the city.

The Waffen-SS Division "Frundsberg" went into the battle at Halbe. The Soviet's surrounded them. Only 40.000 german Soldiers and civilian escaped from this battle into the west.

Today you can see, that in the eastern part of Guben (today it is called Gubin and it is on poland territory) there are many historical buildings, in the western part, that was devasted during the war, are only new buildings. All history (maybee 600 years) was destroyed during some days ...
July 2nd, 2005  
Ashes
 
The high Soviet casualty rate was largely a result of Stalin's hurry to reach Berlin.

Once again it was interferance from Stalin, the Americans had recently crossed the Rhine and the Soviet leader was concerned that they might capture Berlin before him. To speed up his campaign, he split the command of the Berlin operation between Marshall Zukhov in the centre and Marshall Konev in the south. Stalin thus effectively triggered a race between his two most senior commanders, as both of them were eager to be credited with the conquest of the German capital.

But Stalin may have been onto something.
Stalin was desperate to get his hands on the German nuclear research centre, the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute in the southwest of Berlin - before the Americans got there. The Soviets knew through their spies of the American atomic bomb programme. Stalin's own nuclear programme, Operation Borodino, was lagging behind and Soviet scientists wanted to find out exactly what the Germans had come up with during the war.

As it turned out, the special NKVD troops despatched to secure the German institute discovered three tons of uranium oxide, a material they were short of at the time. 'So the Soviets achieved their objective,' says Antony Beevor, 'the uranium oxide they found in Berlin was enough to kick start Operation Borodino and allow them to start working on their first nuclear weapon.'

The Wikipedo figures are misleading.
They claim in the graph the casualties for the battle of Berlin as........

German casualties. 173,000 dead 134,000 captured or missing
152,000 civilian dead Total over 300,000


Russian 185,000 dead, 275,000 wounded

But the 185,000 Russian dead wern't in the fighting in the city.
As it says in the story following the graph they state the following.......

The Soviets sustained 50,000 dead ''in the city'' and ''135,000'' in Eastern Germany as a whole; the Germans sustained as many as 325,000 killed, wounded or missing, civilians included.

Plus the following.......

A breakdown of soldiers and civilians killed can be made as follows:

the crossing of the Oder river: Soviets: 35,000 (majority near Seelow), Germans: 20,000.
the defence of Berlin: Soviets: 50,000; Germans: 45,000 (25,000 men from the Wehrmacht; 15,000 Volkssturm and 5,000 Hitler Youth) and 45,000 civilians.
the battle around Halbe: Soviets: 30,000; Germans: 60,000 (incl. 25,000 civilians)
other battles in the attack: Soviets: 20,000; Germans: 25,000 and 25,000 civilians
Total killed: Soviets: 135,000; Germans: 125,000 and 95,000 civilians. Germans surrendered 135,000 in Berlin and in the Halbe pocket, many of them were wounded.

You're always going to expect high casualties in capturing a large city like Berlin, as the Germans found out in a much smaller city at Stalingrad.

Although the Paulis and Hoth outnumbered Chuikov by up to 3 to 1 in men and material and had complete control of the air, the Germans took heavy casualties and made slow progress untill they were eventually surounded and aniliated.

It,s unfortunate that 50,000 plus Russians were killed in taking the city, but no matter how it was aproached, it was going to be expensive.
July 2nd, 2005  
KC72
 
 
Read this, it`s a brilliant book about the fall of Berlin and the events leading up to it.




Quote:
Berlin: the Downfall, 1945
Military history, even at its best, can be a cold art. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that wars involve individuals, each with their own hopes, fears and desires. Berlin: the Downfall, 1945, is Antony Beevor's account of the bloody Götterdämmerung that brought the Second World War in Europe to an end, and in which he has fused the large and the small scale effects of war. Beevor paints the broad picture of Marshals Zhukov and Konev, competing for glory and Stalin's attention, as they race their armies towards Berlin. He gives the reader a gripping account of the brutal street-by-street fighting in the German capital and provides an unforgettable portrait of the last, insane days of Hitler and his entourage in the bunker.

His attention to emotional detail is what made his previous book Stalingrad such a magnificent work, combining a sweeping hisorical narrative with a remarkable sensitivity to human drama. Yet he also highlights the small details of ordinary people caught in the nightmare of history--the sick children evacuated at the last minute from a Potsdam hospital; the Soviet soldiers shaving themselves for the first time in weeks so that they would make appropriately presentable conquerors; and the Nazi Youth teenagers peddling their bikes in despairing, last-ditch attacks against the Red Army's tanks.

The story Beevor tells is an almost unremittingly terrible one--one of death, rape, hunger and human misery--but he tells it with both an epic sweep and an alertness to individuality. The result is a masterpiece of narrative history that is as powerful as Stalingrad. --Nick Rennison
Review copyright Amazon.co.uk
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July 2nd, 2005  
Hades
 

Topic: Berlin!


There is also a level on Battlefield 1942 set in Berlin! I found out that due to the huge casualties suffered by the Red Army during the early stages of the war the Russians had to recruit children to replenish there ranks! On the defeat of Berlin many German women were raped by Russian soldiers as they plundered and ripped thorugh the remains of houses and shelters! The weapon that really helped the russians tho was the T34 tank (Including the upgrading and variations up to T76), there was also the older versions of the "Tommy Gun" which helped the red army defeat the last parts of the third reich!
July 3rd, 2005  
Young Winston
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC72
Read this, it`s a brilliant book about the fall of Berlin and the events leading up to it.




Quote:
Berlin: the Downfall, 1945
Military history, even at its best, can be a cold art. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that wars involve individuals, each with their own hopes, fears and desires. Berlin: the Downfall, 1945, is Antony Beevor's account of the bloody Götterdämmerung that brought the Second World War in Europe to an end, and in which he has fused the large and the small scale effects of war. Beevor paints the broad picture of Marshals Zhukov and Konev, competing for glory and Stalin's attention, as they race their armies towards Berlin. He gives the reader a gripping account of the brutal street-by-street fighting in the German capital and provides an unforgettable portrait of the last, insane days of Hitler and his entourage in the bunker.

His attention to emotional detail is what made his previous book Stalingrad such a magnificent work, combining a sweeping hisorical narrative with a remarkable sensitivity to human drama. Yet he also highlights the small details of ordinary people caught in the nightmare of history--the sick children evacuated at the last minute from a Potsdam hospital; the Soviet soldiers shaving themselves for the first time in weeks so that they would make appropriately presentable conquerors; and the Nazi Youth teenagers peddling their bikes in despairing, last-ditch attacks against the Red Army's tanks.

The story Beevor tells is an almost unremittingly terrible one--one of death, rape, hunger and human misery--but he tells it with both an epic sweep and an alertness to individuality. The result is a masterpiece of narrative history that is as powerful as Stalingrad. --Nick Rennison
Review copyright Amazon.co.uk
Yes, a great book. All Americans interested in ww2 history should read it.
July 11th, 2005  
vargsriket
 
Just Americans?
July 22nd, 2005  
Strongbow
 
 
It's too bad that Montgomery didn't have his chance to realize his dream of attacking Berlin earlier with his "big thrust" plan.