BATFE has ruled against 10th Amendment

5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

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The ATF - as expected - has issued a letter in which it disregards the 10th Amendment restrictions on federal power ( as seems to be the trend since the late 1930) and has notified Tennessee's federal firearms dealers that the Tennessee Firearms Freedom Act is meaningless. Essentially, ATF is saying to the state of Tennessee that the 10th Amendment no longer exists.

We expected such from a tyranny that no longer lives within the bounds of its express authority.....

http://www.tfaonline.org/downloads/ATFfirearmsfreedomact.pdf
 
How can BATFE make a 'ruling'? They are an enforcement body, they don't legislate or interpret laws.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Congress has actually granted BATFE the power to legislate through Delegated Authority.
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No, they have not. Just the same general conflict between Federal and states jurisdiction. BATFE is charged with enforcing Federal Law. They are just informing the gun dealers that they could be charged with Federal gun law violations if the Federal laws are not followed.

Need to think very carefully here. If the states were to win in court, it could be determined that the 2nd amendment is not incorporated. This would allow each state to ban guns entirely on their own. Most state Constitutions do not give their citizens the "right to keep and bear arms". Even if State Constitutions had such a clause, State Constitutions are a lot easier to change than the Federal Constitution.

The BATFE has not ruled against the 10TH Amendment. They are charged with enforcing existing Federal Law. Trying to make any government agency the boogieman when it is the legislatures we need to watch is very misleading
 
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Chukpike said:
No, they have not. Just the same general conflict between Federal and states jurisdiction. BATFE is charged with enforcing Federal Law. They are just informing the gun dealers that they could be charged with Federal gun law violations if the Federal laws are not followed.

Need to think very carefully here. If the states where to win in court, it could be determined that the 2nd amendment is not incorporated. This would allow each state to ban guns entirely on there own. Most state Constitutions do not give their citizens the "right to keep and bear arms". Even if State Constitutions had such a clause, State Constitutions are a lot easier to change than the Federal Constitution.

The BATFE has not ruled against the 10TH Amendment. They are charged with enforcing existing Federal Law. Trying to make any government agency the boogieman when it is the legislatures we need to watch is very misleading
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We changed slightly the subject. "Delegated Authority" The Congress, apparently, gave the power to enact/interpret Laws, or thier own rules, in a manner that has wide impact. Congress thus establishes creditable deniabilty of responcibilitty of things that they should be voting on, not leaving it to an Agency that isn't responcible to the people directly.
On a seperate subject the US Constitution is for the Feceral Govt, that's why the States have thier own Consitutions. Many do have gun Rights in them.
 
Florida Constitution

SECTION 8. Right to bear arms.--

(a) The right of the people to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves and of the lawful authority of the state shall not be infringed, except that the manner of bearing arms may be regulated by law.

(b) There shall be a mandatory period of three days, excluding weekends and legal holidays, between the purchase and delivery at retail of any handgun. For the purposes of this section, "purchase" means the transfer of money or other valuable consideration to the retailer, and "handgun" means a firearm capable of being carried and used by one hand, such as a pistol or revolver. Holders of a concealed weapon permit as prescribed in Florida law shall not be subject to the provisions of this paragraph.

(c) The legislature shall enact legislation implementing subsection (b) of this section, effective no later than December 31, 1991, which shall provide that anyone violating the provisions of subsection (b) shall be guilty of a felony.

(d) This restriction shall not apply to a trade in of another handgun.
 
Chukpike said:
No, they have not. Just the same general conflict between Federal and states jurisdiction. BATFE is charged with enforcing Federal Law. They are just informing the gun dealers that they could be charged with Federal gun law violations if the Federal laws are not followed.

Need to think very carefully here. If the states where to win in court, it could be determined that the 2nd amendment is not incorporated. This would allow each state to ban guns entirely on there own. Most state Constitutions do not give their citizens the "right to keep and bear arms". Even if State Constitutions had such a clause, State Constitutions are a lot easier to change than the Federal Constitution.

The BATFE has not ruled against the 10TH Amendment. They are charged with enforcing existing Federal Law. Trying to make any government agency the boogieman when it is the legislatures we need to watch is very misleading
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George said:
We changed slightly the subject. "Delegated Authority" The Congress, apparently, gave the power to enact/interpret Laws, or their own rules, in a manner that has wide impact. Congress thus establishes creditable deniabilty of responcibilitty of things that they should be voting on, not leaving it to an Agency that isn't responcible to the people directly.
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"Delegated Authority" I would assume this means that when Congress passes a law, Congress expects it to be enforced by the proper or "delegated "agency.
Gee, how insightful.
Sort of like having a law against robbery and "delegating" the police to enforce it.
Here is a scary thought.
Since your state legislature passes criminal codes, then if you are assaulted you should need to call your state congressman or state senator to come to your aid?

"enact/interpret?" No the US Constitution gave Congress the power to enact federal laws, no one else.

"interpret" Congress can not give anyone the power to interpret the laws. That belongs to the Supreme Court.
George said:
On a separate subject the US Constitution is for the Feceral Govt, that's why the States have thier own Constitutions. Many do have gun Rights in them.
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Most don't.

"On a seperate subject the US Constitution is for the Feceral Govt"

Are you saying the US Constitution and therefore 2nd Amendment do not apply to the States?
I hope you are wrong, and I don't need a history lesson from someone who can't spell Federal.

Trying to make any government agency the bad guy is pointless. It is the laws they are charged with enforcing that are the problem.
 
Chukpike said:
"Delegated Authority" I would assume this means that when Congress passes a law, Congress expects it to be enforced by the proper or "delegated "agency.
Gee, how insightful.
Sort of like having a law against robbery and "delegating" the police to enforce it.
Here is a scary thought.
Since your state legislature passes criminal codes, then if you are assaulted you should need to call your state congressman or state senator to come to your aid?

"enact/interpret?" No the US Constitution gave Congress the power to enact federal laws, no one else.

"interpret" Congress can not give anyone the power to interpret the laws. That belongs to the Supreme Court.

Most don't.

"On a seperate subject the US Constitution is for the Feceral Govt"

Are you saying the US Constitution and therefore 2nd Amendment do not apply to the States?
I hope you are wrong, and I don't need a history lesson from someone who can't spell Federal.

Trying to make any government agency the bad guy is pointless. It is the laws they are charged with enforcing that are the problem.
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I guess the word typo is beyond your grasp. The Police can't make it up as they go. ATFE can, they dreamed up "A machine gun is always a machine gun" & "A rifle is always a rifle". It's not in anything passed by Congress. The Constitution & Bill of Rights is divided between Rights of the People & restrictions on the Fed. Govt.
 
George said:
I guess the word typo is beyond your grasp. The Police can't make it up as they go. ATFE can, they dreamed up "A machine gun is always a machine gun" & "A rifle is always a rifle". It's not in anything passed by Congress.
The Constitution & Bill of Rights is divided between Rights of the People & restrictions on the Fed. Govt.
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No!
The Constitution, including all it's amendments is one document!
The Bill of Rights is just the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. They are not separate.

The Constitution does not give citizens their rights (they had these rights without the Constitution). The Constitution lists the powers the citizens allow the Federal Government to administer on the citizens behalf.
The Bill of Rights (1st 10 amendments) were required to get the states to ratify the Constitution.

George, if you are a gun owner please do not tell anyone. We have enough problems all ready.
 
Chukpike said:
No!
The Constitution, including all it's amendments is one document!
The Bill of Rights is just the first 10 amendments to the Constitution. They are not separate.

The Constitution does not give citizens their rights (they had these rights without the Constitution). The Constitution lists the powers the citizens allow the Federal Government to administer on the citizens behalf.
The Bill of Rights (1st 10 amendments) were required to get the states to ratify the Constitution.

George, if you are a gun owner please do not tell anyone. We have enough problems all ready.
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Adm #3 is a restriction on the Govt. # 8 is a restriction on Govt. #10 "The Powers not delegated to the Fed. Govt by the Constitution, nor prohibited by the States, are reserved to the States, or to the people. seems to restrict the Fed Govt to what is given by the Constitution. Guns, or anything else not in Interstate commerce, are outside to reach of the Fed. Govt, & also violates "Right to keep & bear arms shall not be infringed". There's a lot of infringing going on. Where did I say the Constitution "Gives Rights to the people"?
 
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BATFE has Delegated Authority just as how the FAA has Delegated Authority. FAA makes rulings and law about aviation all the time.
 
5.56X45mm said:
BATFE has Delegated Authority just as how the FAA has Delegated Authority. FAA makes rulings and law about aviation all the time.
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Pretty much off topic from your contention that BATFE has ruled against 10th amendment.

I guess you are saying that the BATFE having been delegated to enforce Federal law, they intend to do so. Not much news in that.

Living in California, my only hope is that Federal Law (2nd Amendment) continues to be enforceable over state restrictions regarding my right to keep and bear arms.
 
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