Ayan Hirsi Ali gong to the US

T

Ted

Active member
Our politics is in turmoil. Ayan Hirsi Ali has to step out of the Houses of Parliament after she had lied about her background. She came to Holland from Somalia and lied as to get the Dutch nationality. This was suspected but not a real problem. She got her PhD and went into politics, quickly becoming anti-islam. She was a muslim herself and lost many friends when she started calling the Islam backwards. During her political career she switched parties as to pursue her vicious anti-Islam route...
Her political party has recently expelled a Bosnian girl who lied to get into Holland. She had three more months to go as to get her Highschool diploma, but the minister of immigration deported her back almost personally. Now all of a sudden one of their leading figures is in exactly in that same predicament and the people do care now. Why a 18 year Bosnian girl getting deported and another in Parliament isn't?

Anyway Ali has accepted a place in the American Enterprise Institute; a ne0-conservative think-tank. Personally I am not sad she goes, but I am afraid the damage she can do in a place like that. Her ego is big, her wits are sharp and she is ready, IMO, to sacrifice anything for personal gain. I wonder how the Americans will react to her side of the story and how much it matches our story?
 
Ted, this is very interesting! Do you have any articles about this woman as I would like to see what she has done to get coverage.
 
You'll actually find quite a lot about her, but a quick general link would be:
http://www.abc.net.au/foreign/stories/s869836.htm

And this is the current issue:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060514/ap_on_re_eu/netherlands_lawmaker

As she said, everybody knew her lies. But it was her own party that started nailing the doubtfull cases and starting the deportations. It was a matter of time that they realised they stuck their heads in the noose. So the party that wants to run for office in two years can either:
a) loose all credibilty and be fingered for double standards; or
b) do what they to to all others and deport the lying refugee.
 
Her citizenship was revoked too.

It shows how weak and gutless Europe has become against radical Islamic forces.

Congrats to Europeans...
 
phoenix80 said:
Her citizenship was revoked too.

It shows how weak and gutless Europe has become against radical Islamic forces.

Congrats to Europeans...
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But she lied while applying for citizenship. She knew the answers to the questions and willingly give false answers. The law applies to all, her included! Her political party was becoming stricter and stricter, making sure that no exceptions were being made. And all of a sudden they figured out that they had to lynch one of their own. The whole islamic issue has nothing to do with this!
 
They can either lynch her, or send her to the US for some think-tank business. I wonder what's the better option? I now recall reading some articles about her when this was known for the public - and she has a problem being taken serious on issues regarding immigration considering her earlier lies.
 
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I like Ayan Hirsi Ali and has heard good things about her so far, so I'm prone to believe she is a smart and brave woman who has been risking her life to fight radical Islam in the Netherlands.
The Dutch should not be too happy that she has left the country while so many extremist imams and Muslims are never going to move out.
Ted it seems to me like that you have this tendency of blaming the victims for they somehow "looked for it" by not giving up to the idea that their thoughts should be given no voice.
She doesn't sound like such a "provoking fascist" to me (Read what she said after the murder of Theo Van Gogh). In fact, I happened to agree with her and also let's not forget that the majority of Dutch voters are right-winging today, in a country where the left used to thrive. She never did any harm to anyone in the Netherlands while so many Muslim fanatics who daily spew hatred against the infidels are not questioned about anything, let alone "expelled" because of some bureaucratic flaw. The AEI doesn't hire fanatics, racists or crazy people, trust me.
I say the Netherlands has lost a precious person.
I say good luck, Ms Hirsi Ali.
 
I am not content with the path that the VVD (her political party) is going. We are losing the ability to think before we act. They are trying to score with "clear cut and straight forward" action, right there and then. They poised the knife and fell into it. So it is not so much an Ali-thing as a VVD-thing.

For her personally; I didn´t like the way she acted on the Dutch political scene. I found her criticism often too sharp and too personal. Maybe she was like a person shouting in the desert. On the other hand, the American ambassador said that her job-offer is unaffected, thus implying that she was about to leave anyway, irrespective of this whole ordeal!
 
First off let me state that I do not know too much about the Netherlands as a whole. This being said, I have a few points to raise.

Ted said:
We are losing the ability to think before we act.
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Point is too often have we been thinking for just too long without ever acting at all.

Ted said:
They are trying to score with "clear cut and straight forward" action, right there and then.
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Who said that clear-cut and straight-forward actions are always wrong?

Maybe she was like a person shouting in the desert.
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A Cassandra?
 
Ted said:
But she lied while applying for citizenship. She knew the answers to the questions and willingly give false answers. The law applies to all, her included! Her political party was becoming stricter and stricter, making sure that no exceptions were being made. And all of a sudden they figured out that they had to lynch one of their own. The whole islamic issue has nothing to do with this!
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She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.

Simple

Read this:

The Caged Virgin
Holland's shameful treatment of Ayaan Hirsi Ali

By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, May 8, 2006, at 3:44 PM ET

http://www.slate.com/id/2141276/
 
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phoenix80 said:
She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.[/quote]

But the point is Phoenix, that it isn't a governmental decision. The minister of immigration is one of her own party. This Rita Verdonk is also running for party leader for the coming elections. Since our "republicans" are losing votes to right wing parties, she decided she wanted to toughen up. She actually, single-handedly made this decision.
Last night she barely survived the debate in our "house of commons" and has to look into the research again and review her prior decision about stripping Ali of her citizenship. So it wasn't a government or Dutch decision, but an ego-thing of somebody wanting to make a point.

Secondly, but beside the point; I find the article written by Christopher Hitchens a bit tainted. Passing judgement while taken our entire history into account from the 1500's is something most Dutch scholars can hardly do. Let alone a journalist, who dove into this matter. He might be a gifted journalist, but critical analysis of an entire countries history as a bit too much.
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Ted said:
phoenix80 said:
She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.[/quote]

But the point is Phoenix, that it isn't a governmental decision. The minister of immigration is one of her own party. This Rita Verdonk is also running for party leader for the coming elections. Since our "republicans" are losing votes to right wing parties, she decided she wanted to toughen up. She actually, single-handedly made this decision.
Last night she barely survived the debate in our "house of commons" and has to look into the research again and review her prior decision about stripping Ali of her citizenship. So it wasn't a government or Dutch decision, but an ego-thing of somebody wanting to make a point.

Secondly, but beside the point; I find the article written by Christopher Hitchens a bit tainted. Passing judgement while taken our entire history into account from the 1500's is something most Dutch scholars can hardly do. Let alone a journalist, who dove into this matter. He might be a gifted journalist, but critical analysis of an entire countries history as a bit too much.
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I made my point and this is all about the cowardice of the European governments in dealing with radical Islam.

Now you can give long speeches on what it is really about but I am not buying it.
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Italian Guy said:
I love Christopher Hitchens. By the way, Ted, did you know he is a Trotskyte?
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Actually I didn't! But as you very well know, even Trotskytes make misjudgements. And I believe the original Trotsky was quite a vain man, until misjudgement came to crack his skull with an axe in Mexico City. But that is beside the point, I don't know his work and I found this specific article to be creating an air that does not exist. (At least I haven't seen it)

Phoenix80 said:
I made my point and this is all about the cowardice of the European governments in dealing with radical Islam.

Now you can give long speeches on what it is really about but I am not buying it.
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I wish you could give a long speech on how you came to this conclusion. First it was the Dutch government, now it is because of the European governments.... what's next?
 
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Holland is part of Europe, isn't it?

The leftist europeans tend to be soft on radical Islamists and tough on the enemies of the radical islam. And Holland is not an exception.

Italian Guy said:
I love Christopher Hitchens. By the way, Ted, did you know he is a Trotskyte?
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He was a Trotskyist (Extreme Socialist) 10-15 years ago but he started hating Bill Clinton, the greatest liar of our age, and then when Sep, 11th happened he realized how wrong he has been on social and international issues as a leftist and he became a more logical and intelligent person by leaning more towards the right wing ideas (Conservatism) and now that is why he is better than any other essayist in the world.

I really like his works
 
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Italian Guy said:
He still claims he is leftist if I'm right.
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He'd say he is an independent thinker and writer.

Whatever he is, he is just brilliant. You gotta read his articles on idiot people like Michael moore and bill clinton
 
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