Ayan Hirsi Ali gong to the US - Page 2




 
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Boots
 
May 16th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
I am not content with the path that the VVD (her political party) is going. We are losing the ability to think before we act. They are trying to score with "clear cut and straight forward" action, right there and then. They poised the knife and fell into it. So it is not so much an Ali-thing as a VVD-thing.

For her personally; I didn´t like the way she acted on the Dutch political scene. I found her criticism often too sharp and too personal. Maybe she was like a person shouting in the desert. On the other hand, the American ambassador said that her job-offer is unaffected, thus implying that she was about to leave anyway, irrespective of this whole ordeal!
May 16th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
First off let me state that I do not know too much about the Netherlands as a whole. This being said, I have a few points to raise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
We are losing the ability to think before we act.
Point is too often have we been thinking for just too long without ever acting at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
They are trying to score with "clear cut and straight forward" action, right there and then.
Who said that clear-cut and straight-forward actions are always wrong?

Quote:
Maybe she was like a person shouting in the desert.
A Cassandra?
May 17th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted
But she lied while applying for citizenship. She knew the answers to the questions and willingly give false answers. The law applies to all, her included! Her political party was becoming stricter and stricter, making sure that no exceptions were being made. And all of a sudden they figured out that they had to lynch one of their own. The whole islamic issue has nothing to do with this!
She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.

Simple

Read this:

The Caged Virgin
Holland's shameful treatment of Ayaan Hirsi Ali

By Christopher Hitchens
Posted Monday, May 8, 2006, at 3:44 PM ET


http://www.slate.com/id/2141276/
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Boots
May 17th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
[quote=phoenix80]She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.[/quote]

But the point is Phoenix, that it isn't a governmental decision. The minister of immigration is one of her own party. This Rita Verdonk is also running for party leader for the coming elections. Since our "republicans" are losing votes to right wing parties, she decided she wanted to toughen up. She actually, single-handedly made this decision.
Last night she barely survived the debate in our "house of commons" and has to look into the research again and review her prior decision about stripping Ali of her citizenship. So it wasn't a government or Dutch decision, but an ego-thing of somebody wanting to make a point.

Secondly, but beside the point; I find the article written by Christopher Hitchens a bit tainted. Passing judgement while taken our entire history into account from the 1500's is something most Dutch scholars can hardly do. Let alone a journalist, who dove into this matter. He might be a gifted journalist, but critical analysis of an entire countries history as a bit too much.
May 17th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
I love Christopher Hitchens. By the way, Ted, did you know he is a Trotskyte?
May 17th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
[quote=Ted]
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80
She said herself, years after she became citizen, that she lied.

Lets not fool each others. Dutch government was so scared, they revoked her status.[/quote]

But the point is Phoenix, that it isn't a governmental decision. The minister of immigration is one of her own party. This Rita Verdonk is also running for party leader for the coming elections. Since our "republicans" are losing votes to right wing parties, she decided she wanted to toughen up. She actually, single-handedly made this decision.
Last night she barely survived the debate in our "house of commons" and has to look into the research again and review her prior decision about stripping Ali of her citizenship. So it wasn't a government or Dutch decision, but an ego-thing of somebody wanting to make a point.

Secondly, but beside the point; I find the article written by Christopher Hitchens a bit tainted. Passing judgement while taken our entire history into account from the 1500's is something most Dutch scholars can hardly do. Let alone a journalist, who dove into this matter. He might be a gifted journalist, but critical analysis of an entire countries history as a bit too much.
I made my point and this is all about the cowardice of the European governments in dealing with radical Islam.

Now you can give long speeches on what it is really about but I am not buying it.
May 18th, 2006  
Ted
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
I love Christopher Hitchens. By the way, Ted, did you know he is a Trotskyte?
Actually I didn't! But as you very well know, even Trotskytes make misjudgements. And I believe the original Trotsky was quite a vain man, until misjudgement came to crack his skull with an axe in Mexico City. But that is beside the point, I don't know his work and I found this specific article to be creating an air that does not exist. (At least I haven't seen it)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix80
I made my point and this is all about the cowardice of the European governments in dealing with radical Islam.

Now you can give long speeches on what it is really about but I am not buying it.
I wish you could give a long speech on how you came to this conclusion. First it was the Dutch government, now it is because of the European governments.... what's next?
May 18th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
Holland is part of Europe, isn't it?

The leftist europeans tend to be soft on radical Islamists and tough on the enemies of the radical islam. And Holland is not an exception.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
I love Christopher Hitchens. By the way, Ted, did you know he is a Trotskyte?
He was a Trotskyist (Extreme Socialist) 10-15 years ago but he started hating Bill Clinton, the greatest liar of our age, and then when Sep, 11th happened he realized how wrong he has been on social and international issues as a leftist and he became a more logical and intelligent person by leaning more towards the right wing ideas (Conservatism) and now that is why he is better than any other essayist in the world.

I really like his works
May 18th, 2006  
Italian Guy
 
 
He still claims he is leftist if I'm right.
May 18th, 2006  
phoenix80
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Italian Guy
He still claims he is leftist if I'm right.
He'd say he is an independent thinker and writer.

Whatever he is, he is just brilliant. You gotta read his articles on idiot people like Michael moore and bill clinton