Aussies foil Terrorist plot

More information is coming out, but basically a Somalian Islamic (with Lebanese) group were in the advanced stages of an armed suicide attack on one or more Australian Army bases. The main target (3rd Brigade Holsworthy Barracks) was one of our bases with civilian unarmed security (in fact they all are) and where most soldiers would be walking or marching around unarmed. The potential carnage is too horrific to think about. Top marks to Aussie INTEL and police and a reminder that:

1. when you let such people migrate into your country don't be surprised at such actions and
2. terrorism, home and abroad, is not a George Bush / John Howard false bogeyman, but a real and continuous threat.
 
2. terrorism, home and abroad, is not a George Bush / John Howard false bogeyman, but a real and continuous threat.

Like I said Padre, sometimes I think we should have a 1 month Military + Police ramadan where all military and police personnel take a manditory vacation. No invader will be dealt with, no 911 calls will be answered.
Actually in 1 month you'd lose the whole country so maybe even 24 hours. Of course, any act of terror or crime during that 24 hour period would be fully pardoned.
Then people will know this stuff isn't just made up. It's real.
 
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/more-charged-terrorism-offences-australia-t77140.html

Another thought I've had on this is that it is probably time for ADF bases to go back to uniformed armed guards on our bases' entrances / gangways. Or at the very least to have a unit armed and ready for a quick response to any threats on all ADF bases.

We needn't sack the unarmed civilian contractors presently doing the job - they could still check ID's and do car patrols around the base and manage key access to buildings, just that in addition toi them there should be armed military / naval personnel on standby or at the gate as well. This is normal for US and probably UK et al, but we haven't had that sort of thing for many years in Australia. The Holsworthy plot is a wake up call.
 
Padre, it all comes down to dollars. Hence uniform were taken off that duty in the first place.
Even the Mil coppers would have dramas trying to get access and issue weapons in the event an attack was made.
I dont even know if any bases have a QRF on standby anymore?
 
Why would it cost anymore?
When I was in, whether or not I was goofing off at the PX or standing guard with rifle and ammo, it cost all the same for the tax payer.
 
Padre, it all comes down to dollars. Hence uniform were taken off that duty in the first place.
Even the Mil coppers would have dramas trying to get access and issue weapons in the event an attack was made.
I dont even know if any bases have a QRF on standby anymore?

Warwick, I don't see too great a problem on the financial side because if Digger A gets paid $60,000 p/a to work/do duties in Area Z or building X but is told instead, to do 4 hours at the front gate with his loaded F88 austeyr on a duty roster, he still costs the Commonwealth of Australia $60,000 p/a. And the maintainence of the weapon and the cost of purchasing the magazine/rounds is already budgeted for the armoury. So costs are not a factor and in fact could save money if military guards replace (some) private unarmed civilian security whose contracts cost a fair penny.

The main problem is actually knowing soldiers and sailors would HATE guard duty and so there would, I concede, be a morale problem, but there are plenty of hard-nosed RSM's and SWO's who would say "harden up Sunshine, welcome to the War on Terror."

One thing I am certain about is if a dirt-bag Islamic terrorist surveys an Aussie army base and sees unarmed civilian security staff at the gate, some of whom just wave people threw or out with a smile he's going to be less deterred from carrying out an attack than if he saw 2 - 3 armed combat trained (possibly combat hardened) soldiers with F88's at the ready. Agreed?

And if you counter argue that nothing would deter suicidal fanatics - I agree - but the suicidal fanatics wouldn't get past the front-gate with Diggers on watch, but they definately would with unarmed civilians, especially the grey haired nice old men and the not so thin or fit women that I tend to see employed by the private security firms at our bases.

Normally I'm glad we feel we have been able to employ our soldiers better on bases and leave the boring crappy mundane guard duty to civilians but this recent plot is a WAKE UP CALL, and I say we need to go back (not forever) to military guards at Aussie bases.

Last illustrative point is - how ironic and embarrassing if the plot was executed and we had a situation where NSW civilian police had to "rescue" combat trained soldiers at their own base from an armed attack !!!

:horsie:
 
The main problem is actually knowing soldiers and sailors would HATE guard duty and so there would, I concede, be a morale problem, but there are plenty of hard-nosed RSM's and SWO's who would say "harden up Sunshine, welcome to the War on Terror."

Sounds like a discipline problem.
Being able to pull guard duty for hours on end is a part of training as well.
 
Some of the civilian guards are so lazy. They don't care about the people they are "guarding"... they aren't soldiers. The running joke is often to see what you can show them instead of an army ID to get inside. The best I've seen work has been a piece of burnt toast and an army ID card with a picture of Bin Laden taped to it. The guard just waves you through if you hold anything up. It's pathetic.
 
"Costs" Probably a budget or accounting trick. A lot of jobs that used to be military are now Civil Service.
 
You can outsource some things, but you should be doing the security of your own house yourselves.
Standing guard for hours on end is also training.
 
I know mate, and it used to be our job... also used as a great extras punishment.

There will be a quick assessment, a formal inquiry, a ministerial investigation, a senate estimate review, an external security audit, a Royal commission and finally a high court decision and then things might change.... but it'll take forever, and all that time Chubb security will keep us secure (and their contract) with their reflective vests and Toyota Yarises.

Finally we might get the order to say "Private Dunmall and Private Wallis, you are on guard duty in one hour"... But it'll be several years before that, and Chubb or Serco or whoever has the contract will fight for years to keep it.
 
Finally we might get the order to say "Private Dunmall and Private Wallis, you are on guard duty in one hour"... But it'll be several years before that, and Chubb or Serco or whoever has the contract will fight for years to keep it.

I swear to God this capitalism is sometimes just too much.
If they're calling the shots on how the military runs its operations you could argue that collectively they are in control of the government and that it is in fact, effectively a limited Coup d'Etat.
Stuff like this pisses me off and no doubt pisses you off even more since it involves you professionally.
 
Some of the civilian guards are so lazy. They don't care about the people they are "guarding"... they aren't soldiers. The running joke is often to see what you can show them instead of an army ID to get inside. The best I've seen work has been a piece of burnt toast and an army ID card with a picture of Bin Laden taped to it. The guard just waves you through if you hold anything up. It's pathetic.

The guards at Lavarack check ID's pretty good. Had to jump the fence a few times when I lived in after going out pissed and leaving it at home.

Finally we might get the order to say "Private Dunmall and Private Wallis, you are on guard duty in one hour"... But it'll be several years before that, and Chubb or Serco or whoever has the contract will fight for years to keep it.

Ever been to a real Infantry unit? The Infantry battalions have their separate guards within the base and the pogue units have duty rooms.
 
The guards at Lavarack check ID's pretty good. Had to jump the fence a few times when I lived in after going out pissed and leaving it at home.



Ever been to a real Infantry unit? The Infantry battalions have their separate guards within the base and the pogue units have duty rooms.

Mate I'm not talking about a units guard/guard room or a duty room. Yes even choccos have them you know... and as I'm sure you know the duty room and officer (or unit guard) are not really about security, they are there to deal with the drunken 'tards who leave ID cards home when they get trashed, close the boozer etc.... it's not real guard duty... But if you think that sitting by a phone in a duty room counts.

I'm talking about doing guard duty properly.
Go and see a "real" Infantry unit in the UK.... Go on Ex Long Look and see how it's really done.
 
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I guess the question to ask yourself is: if a group of terrorists showed up at your unit's door step, would you have guys with the appropriate training and equipment to fight them off on any given time on any given day?
If the answer is no, you have a security problem.
Assigning and running guard duty is essential and should be very natural. I guess I don't need to tell you that planning, assigning and standing guard are things that also require constant practice. Whether at home or deployed abroad, standing guard duty is important.
 
Mate I'm not talking about a units guard/guard room or a duty room. Yes even choccos have them you know... and as I'm sure you know the duty room and officer (or unit guard) are not really about security, they are there to deal with the drunken 'tards who leave ID cards home when they get trashed, close the boozer etc.... it's not real guard duty... But if you think that sitting by a phone in a duty room counts.

I'm talking about doing guard duty properly.
Go and see a "real" Infantry unit in the UK.... Go on Ex Long Look and see how it's really done.

Put rifles and ammunition in the guard rooms then. And improve that metre high chain link fence. What you said was that you couldn't send people to guard, which you can.
 
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