Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones - Page 5




 
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Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones
 
February 22nd, 2012  
perseus
 
 
Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones
[/QUOTE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
To be fair it is Darwin not Dawkins that proposes evolution as the origin of human life, Dawkins just writes incredibly long winded books about how it relates to Atheism.

Unfortunately though there is no real choice but attack the person rather than a belief because faith is the binding block for all sides whether it is God or Science you put your faith in to provide the answers it is really the persons make up you are attacking because that is what faith is, the only real difference is where you put your faith logic or spirituality.

As for the Big Bang well that argument is the same for Atheists, where did God come from, to argue that he/she/it was always there is no more logical than particles just appearing out of nowhere now is it.
Dawkins has popularised the theory of natural selection operating at a genetic level (as opposed to individuals or species competing) as the best mechanism to explain evolution. I think his anti-God crusade is more recent.

Regarding God. I agree, to invent something you don't understand to explain something else you can't understand doesn't really advance our knowledge very much. It certainly doesn't prove there is any omnipotent entity you can pray to which can answer. These questions do suggest however there are limits to scientific knowledge.
February 22nd, 2012  
Trooper1854
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
To me, "faith" in the context of religion, is no more than another word for extreme gullibility.
It can be seen as the story of "The Emporor's new clothes".
But for Christians, and other religions, faith and belief is their way of explaining the way of things.
It may be said religions came about so ancient people could explain what they saw but couldn't understand because they didn't have the understanding of science that there is now.
In the 1600s, in Europe, people were still being burnt alive for saying the Earth revolved around the Sun.
People will want to believe in things, even feel comforted that there is some super natural being watching over them, in the way that a parent watches over a child.
In the last Census for England and Wales, 70.0% 0f people put themselves down as Christians, 14.7% stated no religion, and 0.7% as Jedi!
No matter how much people will argue the fact, Christians will state faith as the foundation of their beliefs.
Its going to be one of those debates that will never end.
February 22nd, 2012  
perseus
 
 
On queue the NYT has an article on this subject in todays edition

Quote:
Why is there something, rather than nothing at all. the question of why there was a Big Bang or any quantum particles at all was presumed to lie safely out of scientific bounds, in the realms of philosophy or religion.

Now even that assumption is no longer safe, as exemplified by a new book by the cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss. In it he joins a chorus of physicists and cosmologists who have been pushing into sacred ground, proclaiming more and more loudly in the last few years that science can explain how something — namely our star-spangled cosmos — could be born from, if not nothing, something very close to it. God, they argue, is not part of the equation.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/21/sc...=1&ref=science
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Atheists in Glass Houses Shouldn't Throw Stones
February 22nd, 2012  
Trooper1854
 
 
I think the thing that somes up the hypocrisy of it all is an incident I dealt with.
Some young thug, gang member got his leg blown off below the knee by a shot gun durring a cocked up robbery.
He was loosing blood like nothing I had ever seen before.
He refused to have a blood transfusion because of his religious beliefs!!!!!
He must have broken everyone of God's commandments in his short miserable little life, but he was addamant he would not have a blood transfusion as his belief was he would have the sins of the donor put on his soul.
February 22nd, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
I think the thing that somes up the hypocrisy of it all is an incident I dealt with.
Some young thug, gang member got his leg blown off below the knee by a shot gun durring a cocked up robbery.
He was loosing blood like nothing I had ever seen before.
He refused to have a blood transfusion because of his religious beliefs!!!!!
He must have broken everyone of God's commandments in his short miserable little life, but he was addamant he would not have a blood transfusion as his belief was he would have the sins of the donor put on his soul.
A buddy of mine works for the National Heart Hospital in London, if they get a young patient and their parents are Jehovah's Witness's, they phone a number and they are made wards of the court immediately. Well that's what he told me.

In your case Trooper I'd let the little scumbag bleed to death. That's one less to mug an old lady.
February 22nd, 2012  
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by perseus
Now even that assumption is no longer safe, as exemplified by a new book by the cosmologist Lawrence M. Krauss. In it he joins a chorus of physicists and cosmologists who have been pushing into sacred ground, proclaiming more and more loudly in the last few years that science can explain how something — namely our star-spangled cosmos — could be born from, if not nothing, something very close to it. God, they argue, is not part of the equation.
This is the problem with science, we live in a world that understands confidence only in the form of absolutes yet good science never talks in absolutes because it is an ongoing work what is known today can be refined tomorrow so they use terms like "science can explain how something — namely our star-spangled cosmos — could be born from, if not nothing, something very close to it. God, they argue, is not part of the equation." which is not absolute and therefore appears little more than a guess to the ordinary person.

The great weakness of evolution is not the science of evolution but the fact that it has the word "theory" in front of it.
February 22nd, 2012  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper1854
It can be seen as the story of "The Emporor's new clothes".
But for Christians, and other religions, faith and belief is their way of explaining the way of things.
Using "The Emperors New Clothes" as an example, you can perhaps now see why I have a very low regard for adult human beings who would resort to "faith" as a way of explanation for anything. Faith explains nothing, other than the weakness of those who have not got the backbone to face the realities of life, people who who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions.

The video below may be confrontational to "believers", but I defy anyone to show where it is incorrect. It certainly sums up my views on "faith" in the religious context.

Faith
February 23rd, 2012  
perseus
 
 
Come on PatCondell tell us what you really think!

Good points though, perhaps we are too frightened of attacking religion, particularily the Islamic variety.
February 23rd, 2012  
Trooper1854
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Using "The Emperors New Clothes" as an example, you can perhaps now see why I have a very low regard for adult human beings who would resort to "faith" as a way of explanation for anything. Faith explains nothing, other than the weakness of those who have not got the backbone to face the realities of life, people who who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own thoughts and actions.

The video below may be confrontational to "believers", but I defy anyone to show where it is incorrect. It certainly sums up my views on "faith" in the religious context.

Faith
I can understand your frustration at the mind set of these people.
Every ounce of logic says "How can you believe in something that you have no proof exits".
But there view may be said to be "How can you not have faith in the almighty?"
At the the end of the day the world has been fighting and arguing over this for centuries and there has not been any headway made.
The believers will always believe, the unbelievers will always have their views.
A priest I know through my work told me this, "If Jesus did make a second comming, it would be the Church more than anyone else, that he would have trouble convincing he was the true Messiah".
February 23rd, 2012  
BritinBritain
 
 
I've been watching this thread for some time, but refraining from comment.

My personal experiences with religion.

I was taught in a convent school (not my choice I can assure you) and taught mainly by nuns. We were taught if we missed mass it was a mortal sin and would burn in hell for eternity, just about everything was a mortal sin. The nuns themselves were vicious bastards. I remember sitting in class when I was 8 or 9 years old, when a nun threw a blackboard rubber/eraser at me, why she did I have no idea. Anyway I ducked and it hit the kid behind me breaking his nose, claret everywhere. I was physically dragged to the front of the class and caned, once for something I was totally unaware of, and again for ducking which caused the kid behind me to get a broken nose. From that moment I turned away from the Catholic church and away from any religion come to that.

The Catholic Church in particular in my opinion is a total and utter fraud. Members of the Mafia and IRA go to church on Sundays then come Monday morning they blow some poor bugger apart or hang someone up on meat hooks, go back to church next Sunday, go to confession, say a few hail Mary's and get forgiven. Then there is the Catholic Church in Rome's involvement in helping NAZI war criminals to flee justice. If that's being religious you can poke it where the sun don't shine.

Lets not forget more blood has been spilled over religion then any other reason.

Rant over