Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007

Show me a single politician that wants to ban ALL Guns. Not even Hillary has suggested such a bill.
Have you never heard of "The thin edge of the wedge" they never tell you what their true agenda is.

Give them an inch and they'll take the whole d@mn tape measure.... and the box it came in.

We are dealing with politicians here. Not mere murderers and thieves.
 
Have you never heard of "The thin edge of the wedge" they never tell you what their true agenda is.

Give them an inch and they'll take the whole d@mn tape measure.... and the box it came in.

We are dealing with politicians here. Not mere murderers and thieves.

Not on this issue, their isn't.

There are several issues in American society that are simply too hot to touch. Guns, abortion, and social security are such examples. Perhaps down deep there are politicians that would like to ban all guns, but they would never propose such a bill. It would be political suicide.

Two years ago Bush tried to push legislation that would have privatized Social Security. Even his own party went nuts at the idea. When you touch these issues, you do so at great peril.
 
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2nd Amendment - A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
It clearly says that the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infrenged.

It doesn't state that the Government shall have the right to keep and bear arms. It states the people.

As for the legal right to own firearms. Banning certain firearms from the civilian populace does not solve the issue of illegal firearms. Criminals attain firearm in illegal manners. Stealing them, buying through black market deals, or other means. Criminals will always be armed so why would you restrict the civilians opwnership of said firearms.

Under your logic of banning firearms because criminals get them. We should ban
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]automobiles because criminals steal them and use them in crimes. (Cars kill more cops than firearms)

Here is a little bit of history of gun control in the USA. It took hold after the War of Northern Aggression (US Civil War) to disarm the black population and to keep them under the white man's boot due to Jim Crow Laws.

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Germany disarmed certain segments of it's society because they knew that if those they deemed were an inferior race were armed that they would not be able to go ahead with the final solution.

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If you look through history. Every nation that was evil disarmed it's civilian population. (Nazi Germany, USSR, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Castro's Cuba, Imperial Japan, etc...)

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An armed society is what makes the difference between a subject and a citizen. When society breaks down. The people cannot wait on hand and foot for the government to come and save them. Hurricane Andrew in Miami FL and Hurricane Katrina in the Gulf Coast States have proven that. So has the L.A Riots and the Miami Riots of the 1980s.
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In the end...

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Firearms are involved in 0.6% of accidental deaths nationally.
Most accidental deaths involve, or are due to, motor vehicles (39%), poisoning (18%), falls (16%), suffocation (5%), drowning (3%), fires (3%), medical mistakes (2%), environmental factors (1%), and bicycles and tricycles (1%). Among children: motor vehicles (45%), suffocation (18%), drowning (14%), fires (9%), bicycles and tricycles (2%), poisoning (2%), falls (2%), environmental factors (2%), and medical mistakes (1%)
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[SIZE=+1]It clearly says that the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infrenged.

..for the purpose of use in the Militia. Thats why the militia part comes first and the right to bear arms comes second.

In 20th century English its says: "Congress shall not ban the right to own keep weapons because the Militia is critical for state security". In other words the principal use of the 2nd Amendment is state security. Thats precisely how the American Revolution was fought. Yeoman farmers talking their weapons with them to join the militia. The 2nd amendment is describing that very practice...

Now in my opinion, (but not others) that doesn't mean it cannot be used for other things like sport, hunting, personal defense et al... But the Constitution is clearly referring to the Militias.


It doesn't state that the Government shall have the right to keep and bear arms. It states the people.

As for the legal right to own firearms. Banning certain firearms from the civilian populace does not solve the issue of illegal firearms. Criminals attain firearm in illegal manners. Stealing them, buying through black market deals, or other means. Criminals will always be armed so why would you restrict the civilians opwnership of said firearms.

Again, where to those guns originally originate from? Black Market Items don't magically appear out of thin air. They are mostly stolen from law abiding civilians.

Under your logic of banning firearms because criminals get them. We should ban
[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]automobiles because criminals steal them and use them in crimes. (Cars kill more cops than firearms)

Thats not an accurate comparison. A car, a meat fork, whatever... are tools. Any tool can be wielded as a weapon, but that is not their primary intent. The person who invented the pillow did not design it to sufficate people in their sleep. A Firearm is not a tool. Its a weapon. Its sole purpose is the taking of life, it has no other use. Tools are for construction, weapons are for destruction. They are for two very different purposes.

Here is a little bit of history of gun control in the USA. It took hold after the War of Northern Aggression (US Civil War) to disarm the black population and to keep them under the white man's boot due to Jim Crow Laws.

I seriously hope your joking about this. Under Southern law, slaves were not generally allowed to carry guns (except squirrel guns), for rather obvious reasons (see Nat Turner, or John Brown). You are actually blaming the North for Jim Crow? You're kidding...What's next, blaming the Jews for the Halocaust? What are you some sort of Confederate apologist? Thats a masterstroke in American history revisionism. Come on, get real.

Germany disarmed certain segments of it's society because they knew that if those they deemed were an inferior race were armed that they would not be able to go ahead with the final solution.

Germany disarmed th civilians to avoid a coup d'etat. And from what you are saying it seems like you are blaming the victims. BTW, the Jews that did resist in the Warsaw Uprising got gassed anyway. So armed, or not armed, the result was the same.


If you look through history. Every nation that was evil disarmed it's civilian population. (Nazi Germany, USSR, Khmer Rouge Cambodia, Castro's Cuba, Imperial Japan, etc...)

I don't know how you can draw that conclusion. I can equally prove the opposite as true. Their are plenty of countries that have no gun control that are equally bad. Somalia, Sudan, Afghanistan, the Middle East. Brazil has no gun control at all and has one of the worst violent crime rates in the world.

An armed society is what makes the difference between a subject and a citizen. When society breaks down. The people cannot wait on hand and foot for the government to come and save them. Hurricane Andrew in Miami FL and Hurricane Katrina in the Gulf Coast States have proven that. So has the L.A Riots and the Miami Riots of the 1980s.

Again the opposite is also true. Rio de Janeiro, has no gun control and its a bloody war zone. Rudy Guiliani placed strict gun control in NYC and gun violence dropped 30%. You cannot prove that in any reliable fashion.
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Gun control is infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, something specifically delineated in the amendment NOT TO BE :cen:ING DONE. Now either you amend the Constitution (good luck with that) or piss off to Europe where all is sweetness and light and no one is killed by gunplay.

Any attempt to take guns out of the hands of honest citizens is working only in favor of the criminal. I have not met one single law enforcement officer who wishes to see guns banned or restricted to the point of disarming law abiding citizens.

The purpose of the ****ing amendment was very clear if anyone would ever take the ****ing time to read the thoughts of the founding fathers. They wanted the average American able to pose a threat to the Federal government and keep their power in check by force if needed. Don't believe me get the god damned books they wrote, the memoirs and copies of their correspondence and educate yourselves. So yes people have a right to own assault rifles.

"Where the people fear the government there is tyranny. Where the government fears the people there is liberty." - Thomas ****ing Jefferson
 
[SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]Again the opposite is also true. Rio de Janeiro, has no gun control and its a bloody war zone. Rudy Guiliani placed strict gun control in NYC and gun violence dropped 30%. You cannot prove that in any reliable fashion.[/SIZE]
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And Mexico? Only 4,000 legal gun owners in the whole country compared to 80,000,000 in the US?

Yet Mexico's murder rate is much higher than the US rate?

How about the UK?

2001
http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1440764.stm
2003
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2640817.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2656875.stm
2005
http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/guncontrol_20010302.html
2007
http://robertsrationale.blogspot.com/2007/01/serious-gun-crime-up-in-uk.html
http://www.breitbart.com/news/na/paFiguresThurs18Crimefiguresud2Substitute.html
 
Stop with the god given right stuff as well.

Hell yeah! What have those stupid "rights" ever done for me?:sarc:

mmarsh said:
Nowadays when you join the militia (National Guard) they give you a rifle, you don't need to bring your own.

Incorrect. American males do not "join" the militia. They are all automaticaly militia members when they turn 17 and no state or federal goverment issues rifles to the unorganized militia.

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.
 
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Bugfatty

Thats just my point. You cannot make any conclusion to where gun-control leads to crime reduction or or not. You can find cases that support both ends of the arguement. Thats not my point. My point is that certain weapons and accessories have no use in civilian life (under any circumstance) and only offer convience to law-breakers. If you are a police officer do you really want to face armed bank robbers who carry state of the art weaponry or would you rather they have something else sophiticated?

You missed my earlier post. I am not saying people don't have the right to carry weapons (like the ACLU does). I used to shoot myself. What I am saying is the 2nd Amendment is not a blank check to allow unrestricted gun ownership. The USSC has already acknowledged that gun control does not infrigrnge on the 2nd Amendment.

Again people I am for CONTROL not a BAN. Just like booze and cigarettes are controlled.

Even the NRA acknowledges certain gun controls are necessary.
 
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In American society we have limits on most things. For example who can Drive, Drink, Vote, join the military, to name a few.

None of those are rights as defined in the Bill of Rights. Owning and carrying firearms is however.

My point is that certain weapons and accessories have no use in civilian life (under any circumstance) and only offer convience to law-breakers.

Problem is just because YOU see no use for something isn't a reason to ban it or restrict it.

Bayonet lugs, removable magazines, and pistol grips do not make a gun more "deadly" than one with out those. Its all about emotion and scary images.

Just about all the guns I own would be considered "assault weapons" under this new law.

What I am saying is the 2nd Amendment is not a blank check to allow unrestricted gun ownership.

Actually it is.

"Shall not be infringed"

The USSC has already acknowledged that gun control does not infrigrnge on the 2nd Amendment.

The assault weapon ban is definetly an infringment.
 
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So the Brady Campaign doesn't want to ban ALL guns?

They have already began to go after the 30-30 cartridge.

http://http://blog.myspace.com/inde...&MyToken=294c2578-fd22-4a2b-a531-dccb44448e3c

So lets see. They want to ban the 30-30 round? The most popular deer cartridge in the US? So whats left for us to own after the Brady Campaign is finally happy? My guess would be .22 LR or .22 Short in a single shot break action rifle.

The funny thing is that with all the uber deadly ARs and AKs, automatic handguns, UZIs in the hands of US citizens ITS THE .22 LR that is the most popular round in the US to murder someone with.

Yet the Brady kooks want to ARs and hunting rifles? OMFG, the ignorance of those people.
 
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Sorry MMARSH but you sir are dead wrong

Originally Posted by mmarsh
In American society we have limits on most things. For example who can Drive, Drink, Vote, join the military, to name a few.


Limits on most things in society. Sorry but the only thing that you mentioned that was a right is Voting.

Everything else is a privilege. Hence why there are limits on it. It's not a right to drive your car on public roads. It's not a right for you to drink alcohol, it's not a right for you to smoke tobacco, it's not a right for you to watch TV.


Voting is in the US Constitution just as the Right to bear arms. There were limits on voting in the past.

Poll Tax
IQ Test
Land Ownership
Race
Sex
Age

Those were all deemed by the Government and the People to be unconstitutional.

So unless you understand the difference between a right and a privilege. Stop trying to tell me how to excerise my rights.
 
I don't have to, United States Supreme Court already did.

United States vs Miller 1939. The ruling that said the government could ban sawed-offs. So their is a legal, precedent for gun control, it is not a blank check as you claim.

The US Supreme Court Basicially said that the 2nd Amendment was tied to the Militias and as long as their was no link to Militias, the personal ownership of firearms was not gaurenteed.

And with that I'm finished. The subject has lost interest for me.
 
Hmmm... Strange. You claim that US versus Miller sets the link between the 2nd AMendment and the Militia. Well, to inform you... US versus Miller was about the National Firearms Act of 1934 was passed because of the roaring 20's and the gangsters. Not because of the Militia.

Strangely, all of the new gun laws have been passed because of said weapons and their connection to the current or former militray arms.

Also about the Miller Case, it was about how a citizen cut his own Shotgun barrel down to under 18 inches and how it would interfere with interstate commerce. Strangely about the case, the US Supreme court ruled that a short barreled shotgun had no military or militia use. Yet it was such a useful weapon in combat that the Imperial German Government issued an order that it is against the laws of war and that they would execute any American or allied troop armed with said shotgun. Also, the US Supreme Court stated that Full Automatic weapons or supressors play no use in the military. When once again during WWI, the auto-matic weapon and the sound supressor played a major role in the evoultion of combat.


Hey Mmarsh, get your facts straight before you quote me about firearm case laws.

The National Firearms Act was a feel good law that was passed, just as prohibition.

Also, New York City. One of America's first cities that pased gun control laws passed it for reasons other than public safety. The Sullivan Act was passed back in 1911 and created the law that disallowed the civilian populace from carrying firearms for self protection. This law allowed police to issue CCW permits to those they saw fit to have.

At the time, there was a large segment of the NYPD that was Irish. Also during that period of time there was a large influx of Eastern European and Italian immigrants. Many felt that these new immigrants were trash and such. Since the law was passed, most that were allowed to carry firearms for self defense were those associated with the NYPD. Infact, the first person arrested under the Sullivan Act was an Italian immigrant. The Sullivan Act is still in force and only the well connected in NYC can get a CCW Permit. The local blue collar civilian population cannot.
 
Fight for your rights. Don't become a p1ssant police state like Australia.

My hobby has been taken from me for no reason. I never killed anyone or for that matter endangered them in any way, but because a bloke who was a known "idiot" went berserk every law abiding gun owner has been punished.

Prior to our "Gun Control" my home state was the only state in Australia where the ownership of automatic weapons was not banned, (Their importation was banned, but not ownership). There has never been a crime committed in this state with an automatic weapon.

"Gun control is always the thin edge of the wedge"

Once gun control is in place, the costs and inconvenience of administering it will be used to help drive legitimate owners out of gun ownership all together.

When I started collecting registration was free, and a lifetime licence was $2. Nothing is free and licences are issued perannum with all of the associated paperwork, proof of identity, statements about your usage and storage facilities, photograph, the whole box and dice.
 
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Gun control will never work in this country. People won't surrender their weapons; they'll become criminals for keeping the firearms they are entitled to.
 
I got an idea. You don't live in the United States of America. You're not a gun owner. You do not understand our government, life style, rights, history, and Constitution.

You were born a servent of a former British territory.

I was born as a slave in a communist state and fled to the USA. I became and citizen instead of a subject like you.

I consider myself American because I spent more of my life in this wonderful country. I spent mylife studying the rights of the people, the history, the government, and lastly I life the life style.

Since you aren't from the USA nor do you live in the USA nor do you understand the USA.

SHUT THE HELL UP AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH QUITE ABOUT TOPICS YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT.

I do not comment or meddle in you national affairs. So you should do the same.
 
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