Artifacts from the Big One

I3BrigPvSk

The Viking
I spent a few hours watching these videos in which people are using metal detector from the Second World War and they were finding a lot of stuff. I don't know much about how munitions behave after being buried since the war. They were finding panzer fausts, mortal shells, hand grenades, 20mm and 40mm AAA shells.

How dangerous is this kind of munition after all this time? Bombs cause a huge evacuation when they are found.
 
In France as you are probably aware, are thousands of tons of shells and other explosives left over from WW1, experts are saying some of it is too dangerous to move, some of the shells could contain poison gas such as mustard gas.

A few years ago a young boy and he buddy got onto a British Military live fire range, one of the boys found an unexploded 81MM mortar bomb so he decided to kick it. He finished up as a red mist. His buddy survived.
 
The Baltic sea was a dumping place for a lot of stuff. Sometimes the fishermen get up something slightly different than fish. They got canisters of mustard gas. Some of them were hurt badly, but survived, though.

During the WWI the British used miners to plant huge amount of explosives beneath the German trenches and one of them is still there somewhere. I don't remember exactly where, can it be Somme?

The vids I watched. The people digging up stuff from the Eastern front don't handle shells and other stuff carefully.

Do we have any military engineers here?
 
Doesn't make the news, but reportedly 1 person in the US is killed every year or so by Civil War munitions going off.
 
Wow, even from the US Civil War. The guys searching for stuff from the Second World War must be really crazy.
 
Wow, even from the US Civil War. The guys searching for stuff from the Second World War must be really crazy.
certainly dangerous work. Have heard reports of people finding storage bunkers that had only the entrance blown, stocked with brand new rifles.
 
There is a British mine under the Canadian Memorial at Vimy Ridge.

In 1988, the Canadian Authorities at the Vimy Ridge Memorial Site, France, called on the British Government for assistance in investigating what they believed might be a large cache of black powder situated sixty feet below the surface of the park and quite close to the public areas.

Accompanied by a team of volunteers, Lt Col Phillip Robinson - a British Army Royal Engineer, made a detailed investigation of the "La Folie" tunnel system and confirmed that the black powder was in fact, an abandoned mine charge, left over from the First World War. The DURAND mine, (the tunnel leading to it had been constructed by French Tunnelling Engineers) constituted about 6,000lbs of the high explosive ammonal. Subsequent tests, however, revealed the powder to be highly degraded and incapable of detonation.

In 1996, Lt Col Robinson returned to Vimy after further investigation had indicated another, much larger charge still lying dormant under the ridge. The BROADMARSH - so called because it sits under an area of the same name - was estimated to be 20,000lbs and lying uncomfortably close to a busy road junction within a part of the Memorial site that sees many thousands of cars, coaches and pedestrians passing over it each year.

The Canadian Authorities, mindful of their 'duty of care' to those visiting the site, agreed to an investigation. In October 1997, having assembled a team of specialist civilian and military personnel for the operation, Lt Col Robinson returned to Vimy Ridge and successfully excavated the BROADMARSH mine. In 1998, inspired by ethos of the tunnellers and the achievements at Vimy, team member Lt Col Mike Watkins proposed a continuation of the work and those present would form the nucleus of what is now The Durand Group.

Further analysis of the DURAND mine in February 1998 concluded that, far from inert, the explosive ammonal under the top layers of the charge was still in perfect working order and that the instability of the primers and detonators posed a very real risk to the general public on the surface.

This mine charge was subsequently made safe, as too was another, smaller mine - a CAMOUFLET designed to blow an enemy tunnel - further south within the "La Folie" system. It is not thought that any further charges - of British origin - exist within the Memorial Site boundary.

In August 1998 tragedy struck. Whilst trying to gain entrance to an incline into "O" Sector - a mining system to the south of "La Folie" - Lt Col Mike Watkins was killed when a section of clay sheared off.
 
From my limited knowledge about explosives, shells, and other types of munition. Longer they stay in the ground, the more unstable they are.

What do you think about the people looking for artifacts? Some of the searching groups are looking for the fallen soldiers and trying to identify them. I have a respect for that. Other groups are out looking for just souvenirs.

Many of the groups seem to be Russian or Ukrainian, and when I don't speak any of the two languages. I don't really know what they are saying.
 
Last edited:
A couple of years ago a young boy arrived at the Port of Dover after a holiday in France with his parents. Customs officers pulled them over for a search where a live hand grenade was found in the boys luggage. Somewhat shocked both parents and customs asked where he got it, apparently it was sold to him by a French souvenir seller..

Bomb disposal experts have stated that to clear France of all munitions left over from WW1 will take up to 500 years to clear.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ill-take-500-years-to-clear-say-bomb-disposa/
 
Last edited:
Is it allowed to dive on wrecks around the GB? I think the Norse don't allow scuba divers around their wrecks when they contain munitions
 
Is it allowed to dive on wrecks around the GB? I think the Norse don't allow scuba divers around their wrecks when they contain munitions
There are rules about wrecks belonging to the Royal Navy being they are still govt. property & War Graves.
 
I'm not a diver so I cannot really answer that.

Of the coast of Sheerness in Kent there is a wreck called the SS Richard Montgomery,

SS Richard Montgomery was an American Liberty ship built during World War II, one of the 2,710 used to carry cargo during the war. The ship was wrecked off the Nore sandbank in the Thames Estuary, near Sheerness, England in 1944 with around 1,400 tonnes (1,500 short tons) of explosives on board,[1] which continues to be a hazard to the area.

In August 1944, on what was to be her final voyage, the ship left Hog Island, Philadelphia, where she had been loaded with 6,127 tons of munitions.

She travelled from the Delaware River to the Thames Estuary, then anchored while awaiting the formation of a convoy to travel to Cherbourg, France, which had come under Allied control on 27 July 1944 during the Battle of Normandy.

When Richard Montgomery arrived off Southend, she came under the authority of the Thames naval control at HMS Leigh located at the end of Southend Pier. The harbour master, responsible for all shipping movements in the estuary, ordered the ship to a berth off the north edge of Sheerness middle sands, an area designated as the Great Nore Anchorage.

On 20 August 1944, she dragged anchor and ran aground on a sandbank around 250 metres from the Medway Approach Channel,[ in a depth of 24 feet (7.3 m) of water. The general dry cargo liberty ship had an average draught of 28 ft (8.5 m); however, Richard Montgomery was trimmed to a draught of 31 ft (9.4 m). As the tide went down, the ship broke her back on sand banks near the Isle of Sheppey about 1.5 miles (2.5 km) from Sheerness and 5 miles (8 km) from Southend.

A Rochester-based stevedore company was given the job of removing the cargo, which began on 23 August 1944, using the ship's own cargo handling equipment. By the next day, the ship's hull had cracked open, causing several cargo holds at the bow end to flood. The salvage operation continued until 25 September, when the ship was finally abandoned before all the cargo had been recovered. Subsequently, the ship broke into two separate parts, roughly at the midsection.

During the enquiry following the shipwreck it was revealed that several ships moored nearby had noticed Richard Montgomery drifting towards the sandbank. They had attempted to signal an alert by sounding their sirens without avail, since throughout this Captain Wilkie of Richard Montgomery was asleep. The ship's chief officer was unable to explain why he had not alerted the captain. A Board of Inquiry concluded that the anchorage the harbour master assigned had placed the ship in jeopardy, and returned Richard Montgomery's captain to full duty within a week.

According to a 2008 survey, the wreck is at a depth of 15 m (49 ft), on average, and leaning to starboard. At all states of the tide, her three masts are visible above the water.[7]

Because of the presence of the large quantity of unexploded ordnance, the ship is monitored by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency and is clearly marked on the relevant Admiralty Charts. In 1973 she became the first wreck designated as dangerous under section 2 of the Protection of Wrecks Act 1973. There is an exclusion zone around her monitored visually and by radar. The exclusion zone around the wreck is defined by the following co-ordinates: (When I was a boy we use to take sight seeing trips around the wreck)

According to a survey conducted in 2000 by the United Kingdom Maritime and Coastguard Agency,[1] the wreck still held munitions containing approximately 1,400 tonnes (1,500 short tons) of TNT high explosive. These comprise the following items of ordnance:

286 × 2,000 lb (910 kg) high explosive "Blockbuster" bombs[9]
4,439 × 1,000 lb (450 kg) bombs of various types
1,925 × 500 lb (230 kg) bombs
2,815 fragmentation bombs and bomb clusters
Various explosive booster charges
Various smoke bombs, including white phosphorus bombs
Various pyrotechnic signals

An investigation by New Scientist magazine concluded in 2004, based partly on government documents released in 2004, that the cargo was still deadly, and could be detonated by a collision, an attack, or even shifting of the cargo in the tide. The bad condition of the bombs is such that they could explode spontaneously. Documents declassified shortly before revealed that the wreck was not dealt with immediately after it happened, or in the intervening 60 years, due to the expense.

The Maritime and Coastguard Agency nevertheless believe that the risk of a major explosion is remote. The UK government's Receiver of Wreck commissioned a risk assessment in 1999, but this risk assessment has not been published. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency convened with local and port authorities to discuss the report in 2001 and concluded that "doing nothing was not an option for much longer".
 
Back
Top