Armenian.. Genocide or War?

JulesLee

JulesLee

Active member
well I think theres a post made for this but I couldnt find.. so I wanted a discussion.

I go to a school where theres alot of armenians in it, Theres alot of them in Northern Los Angeles, so my school is composed of 1/3 white 1/3 asian 1/3 armenian..

I seen many projects about the Armenian Genocide because of this.. so I only got to see one side. They did alot of protests and etc.. and I learned that they lost a big chunk of land and 1/2 the population had died.

My question is.. Where was the Armenian ARMY? Every country has a defence system.. Or were they defeated and armenia's people was in starvation, which led to a "genocide"
The Armenians want recognition of Turkey and the US that it happened and it was a genocide and they want their land back... Which prolly wont happen as US and Turkeys are allies and Armenia is a small country with very little natural resources..
As I see it, I think it was a war where the Armenians lost alot of land and civilians.. because.. wheres the armenian armies? Was it like Turkey with WW1 weapons vs armenians using their famous calvary archers? lol..
Well I only heard one side of the story so im just making assumptions heh.. I wanted to ask them that but I didnt feel it was approrpiate to say when many ppl were in a sad mood seeing those people starve etc..

If there was already a topic about this, please delete and send me the link as Im interested! :p
 
Julius, there was not such a thing as the Armenian Army as there was not such a thing as an independent Armenia at the time. Armenians were part of Turkey, only a Turkish minority.
 
Italian Guy said:
Julius, there was not such a thing as the Armenian Army as there was not such a thing as an independent Armenia at the time. Armenians were part of Turkey, only a Turkish minority.
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A part of Armenia (Western) was (and still is!) a part of Turkey.
The Eastern part used to be in Russian Empire then in the USSR. Now it is an independent country, while very poor.
It is strange to be in the Armenian capital - Erevan and see the symbol of Armenians - Mt. Ararat on the horizon, knowing that it is ABROAD - in Turkey.

Some people who had escaped the Genocide by fleeing abroad, have migrated to France, US and to the Soviet Armenia.
The famous French singer Charles Aznavur was an Armenian.

Another interesting story related to this - in the beginning of the last Century some American Insurance companies have been marketing the life insurance among the Armenians and other inhabitants of the Ottoman Empire. Many of the insured have perished during the Genocide. However, these companies have refused to pay up, citing the absence of death certificates etc. Like the Turkish authorities busy with killing people would be generous enough to issue the death certificates to their heirs instead of killing them as well...

But now there is a very powerful Armenian lobby in the US. Powerful enough to get these insurers to pay...
 
ahhh icic.. thats how it worked... so armenia wasnt a country but a race under turkey? that explains alot.. !
 
No these are not the denials... These are the real facts...Belive me and belive Turkey. If we want to make a genocide we could have done it hundred years before, when the Turks first entered Anatolia... We were calling Armenians in Turkey Millet-i Sadıka means Faithfull People because we let them live with their own religion with their own culture and they never made rebellions to us. But when they were forced to be in rebel actions agains Turkey with the support of other countries we should have moved them away from the conflict area. But we did it in Winter and on the way to Syria about 50000 Armenians died... If you dont belive these facts search about Ottoman Archives.
We called Armenian historians to search about our archives but they didnt come because they know that we didn't make a genocide...
 
IG's got the right of it. I'll just add that whenever you wipe out 2 million people of a specific ethnic group, it's genocide beyond doubt. 2 million Armenians are believed to have been wiped out. There are places in Turkey where the skulls are still stacked like bricks.
 
oRTouCH said:
No these are not the denials... These are the real facts...Belive me and belive Turkey. If we want to make a genocide we could have done it hundred years before, when the Turks first entered Anatolia... We were calling Armenians in Turkey Millet-i Sadıka means Faithfull People because we let them live with their own religion with their own culture and they never made rebellions to us. But when they were forced to be in rebel actions agains Turkey with the support of other countries we should have moved them away from the conflict area. But we did it in Winter and on the way to Syria about 50000 Armenians died... If you dont belive these facts search about Ottoman Archives.
We called Armenian historians to search about our archives but they didnt come because they know that we didn't make a genocide...
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Ortouch this is from a neutral during in 1915:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-16-15-2-text.html

This is from a German an ally of Turkey:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-31-15-text.html

From an American newspaper in 1915:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/9-24-15-text.html

Report on treatment of Armenian children:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-20-15-text.html

Hitler on Armenian:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/hitler.html

ABC news report:
http://www.theforgotten.org/intro.html

United Human Rights Council webpage:
http://www.unitedhumanrights.org/Genocide/armenian_genocide.htm

Genocide watch report on Armenia
http://www.gendercide.org/case_armenia.html

The fact is that Turkey denies it happened and puts pressure on countries not to acknowledge it, so why do so many people and with so much evidence say it happened? The truth has to be acknowledge however unpalatable it is.
 
NOONE LOVES TURKEY IN THIS FORUM AND SO NOONE WANTS TO ACCEPT THE TRUTH!!!

You don't know anything about Ottoman Empire and so you are not able to understand why we claim that we didn't make a Genocide! If we want to make a Genocide we could have done it years before when the Turks first entered Anatolia... You are closin your eyes to truth...
From now on I am not tellin' you anything because you all don't want to have a look at TUrkish claims. We called Armenians to solve this problem.We called their historians, but they didn't come... Go ahead then I dont want to tell you anything anymore...
 
Jule's first post is interesting. He divides his school into "Whites" "Asians" and "Armenians". Implying Armenians are not "White". Even if we excuse the use of "White" and use "caucasian" instead, the question isn't clarified. Jules, if you take a look at the location of Armenia, you'll see why the use of caucasian is both more appropriate and more accurate.
The Turkish-Armenia episode was a result of the disolution of empire. The episode isn't any different from that carried out in the Balkans in the 1990's. The Serbs/Coats/Bosnians treated each other in a fashion similar to the Turks and Armenians. And the deaths of the Armenians in Anatolia was paralleled by the deaths of Muslims forced out of Greece and the Balkans at the same time.
Jules, the Armenians did manage to cobble together a trained and equipped defense force. Numbers of Armenians deserted from the Turkish military, taking thier equipment with them, and returned to their homeland to defend towns, cities and enclaves with some localized success. Probably more accurate to call them para-militaries or militias rather than an army.
And you might consider reviewing the more recent Armenian-Azeri conflict. It really has its roots in the same conflict only now, in addition to a higher body count, it threatens the regional oil/gas exports. Maybe the economic threat will garner more attention to the lingering smoldering issues involved. But at the end of the day, some people just don't like each other very much.
 
G Connor said:
Jules, the Armenians did manage to cobble together a trained and equipped defense force. Numbers of Armenians deserted from the Turkish military, taking thier equipment with them, and returned to their homeland to defend towns, cities and enclaves with some localized success. Probably more accurate to call them para-militaries or militias rather than an army.
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Do you have any more information on this?

Are you saying that this was the result of Turkish actions?
 
Reiben said:
Do you have any more information on this?

Are you saying that this was the result of Turkish actions?
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I have read somewhere that the Armenian secret organisation has been hunting out the Turkish genocide organizers for decades. Much like the Jews...
 
This is one of those threads that will probably end up in the halll of shame unless people remain very respectful towards each other. However, every time I have seen people discussing this issue, the result has been less than impressive. The truth of the matter is that a lot of people died in what was very probably an organized effort on the part of some or possibly even many Ottoman Empire half-wits, and any records of what actually occurred were probably destroyed when modern Turkey rose from the ashes of the defunct Ottoman government. In the end, we have some Armenians claiming that the Turks were responsible, and the Turks saying prove it, and of course, neither side can, so we have an acrimonious stand-off.
Ortouch, the records to which you referred are not in the Turkish archives. I have never been there, and I could have told you that. The Armenian researchers to whom you referred were not stupid, they knew it too. If there ever were any records deposited there, there were taken out and destroyed long ago, and since that time, the only evidence that either side can really point to is well documented heresay. I have heard of and read both solid and laughable evidence from both sides (an Armenian claim that his grandfather was killed when he was but a 12 year old child, and a Turkish claim that the Ottoman Army never operated in Armenia...) So unless someone can come up with something solid, this is very likely to descend into an I'm right, no, I'm right kind of thread. Oh and please remember: ***ALL ARCHIVAL EVIDENCE FROM THIS PERIOD ABOUT THIS ISSUE ON BOTH SIDES IS HIGHLY SUSPECT***
As for Turkish responsibility for these deaths, I tend to believe the Turkish point of view. The present day Turkish government holds absolutely no responsibility for the deaths of that time. Turkey did not exist, the government as it exists now did not exist, hell, even the country as we know it did not exist. Now, the great-grandfathers of some Turkish citizens may well have been mass murderers, but we cannot and should not be trying to hold a country responsible for events that occurred before its very existence. While it might be useful for the Turkish government to admit that a massacre did occur, I believe that no more actions or reparations are warranted. In this case, the guilty are dead, and it really is time to let these old hatreds follow them.

Dean.
 
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Originally Posted by Reiben

This is from a German an ally of Turkey:
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/us-7-31-15-text.html
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Germany...Yes our old ally. They did a genocide and they don't wanna be alone so they may claim that we did a genocide...
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Did anyone else notice that this article was witten in 1915... about 20 years BEFORE the genocide in Germany? I'm sorry, I can respect your pride in your country, but this WAS genocide.
 
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