Armenia Azerbaijan Clash

[oRTouCH]

Armenian and Azerbaijani troops have clashed in the heaviest fighting in months over the disputed Nagorny Karabakh region, leaving at least four Armenian soldiers dead, officials said Saturday.

With tensions rising between the two rival nations, Armenia's defence ministry said in a statement that four soldiers had been killed and four wounded after Azerbaijani forces attacked separatist positions late Friday.
The ministry also claimed that an Azerbaijani soldier had been killed.

Azerbaijani Defence Ministry spokesman Eldar Sabiroglu confirmed the fighting had taken place but blamed Armenian forces for the attack and said Yerevan was understating its losses.

"Armenian armed forces breached the ceasefire. They have lost even more soldiers than they admit," he told AFP. He refused to comment on casualties among Azerbaijani soldiers.

Aliyev earlier this month threatened to withdraw from foreign-backed peace talks after he accused Armenia of stalling the negotiations.

International mediators have been pushing since 2007 for the two sides to agree to the so-called Madrid principles -- a deal which would see Armenian forces withdraw from areas surrounding Karabakh, international peacekeepers deployed in the region, refugees granted the right to return and an eventual vote on the region's status.

Azerbaijan's foreign ministry accused Armenia of provoking the violence by delaying in negotiations.
"There is a fairly simple way to avoid armed conflict. It is to sit down at the negotiating table and continue working on the basis of the updated Madrid principles," Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman Elkhan Polukhov told AFP.

ANP/AFP

*Time to get Karabakh back!*

 

[Prapor]

Armenian and Azerbaijani troops have clashed in the heaviest fighting in months over the disputed Nagorny Karabakh region, leaving at least four Armenian soldiers dead, officials said Saturday.

With tensions rising between the two rival nations, Armenia's defence ministry said in a statement that four soldiers had been killed and four wounded after Azerbaijani forces attacked separatist positions late Friday.
The ministry also claimed that an Azerbaijani soldier had been killed.

Azerbaijani Defence Ministry spokesman Eldar Sabiroglu confirmed the fighting had taken place but blamed Armenian forces for the attack and said Yerevan was understating its losses.

"Armenian armed forces breached the ceasefire. They have lost even more soldiers than they admit," he told AFP. He refused to comment on casualties among Azerbaijani soldiers.

Aliyev earlier this month threatened to withdraw from foreign-backed peace talks after he accused Armenia of stalling the negotiations.

International mediators have been pushing since 2007 for the two sides to agree to the so-called Madrid principles -- a deal which would see Armenian forces withdraw from areas surrounding Karabakh, international peacekeepers deployed in the region, refugees granted the right to return and an eventual vote on the region's status.

Azerbaijan's foreign ministry accused Armenia of provoking the violence by delaying in negotiations.
"There is a fairly simple way to avoid armed conflict. It is to sit down at the negotiating table and continue working on the basis of the updated Madrid principles," Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry spokesman Elkhan Polukhov told AFP.

ANP/AFP

*Time to get Karabakh back!*

You just try. You think Armenia will be alone? You Turkish bastards have genocided a million of them in the past; now you want to do again, with Azerbaijan? Well, you watch your back. Russia won't let Armenia down. They are our Christian brothers. In fact, it would be our responcibility, under CSTO. One is attacked, all are attacked, like NATO. Remember that.

 

[Shmack]

*Time to get Karabakh back!*

oRTouCH, with all my respect.. Do you really believe in that?

 

[oRTouCH]

You just try. You think Armenia will be alone? You Turkish bastards have genocided a million of them in the past; now you want to do again, with Azerbaijan? Well, you watch your back. Russia won't let Armenia down. They are our Christian brothers. In fact, it would be our responcibility, under CSTO. One is attacked, all are attacked, like NATO. Remember that.

First of all watch your tongue! "Turkish bastards" statement that you used is so rude and this may lead you to be banned. If you are really looking for someone to name "bastard" I think you are suitable for it.

If Armenia is not alone, Azerbaijan will not be alone too. US and Turkey won't let a terrorist nation (ASALA is a terrorist group founded by Armenians and funded by Armenia, killed several innocent Turkish diplomats in Turkey and Europe) fight against Azerbaijan.

 

[oRTouCH]

oRTouCH, with all my respect.. Do you really believe in that?

Hi Shmack.

What I really mean in the sentence "Time to get Karabakh back" is to use diplomatic options and the withdrawal of Armenian soldiers from that region. Because everyone knows that Armenians invaded Karabakh without a reason. It is also proved by Madrid Principles.

And I also mean, if Armenians are not supporting peaceful ways (like they are not accepting to create a history commision with Turks to work on Armenian issue) and if they are not withdrawing their forces from Karabakh the last option is war. I really respect Russia and I am really glad that we have good relations with them but noone has the right to invade Karabakh even a puppet of Russia.

 

[Shmack]

I understand. From certain point of view you're right. But let alone the 20th century with its genocides and wars. What we have now is zero possibility that Karabakh will return to Azerbaijan willingly. That means that the only way for Azerbaijan to return Karabakh is a war. The only one.

No matter who is right and who is wrong. There are just weak and powerful. I thought that became quite clear after the 2008 war in Georgia. Russia will engage with Azeri troops in case of war. No matter who the first settlers in Karabakh were - Turks, Armenians, Persians, Chinese. No matter who broke international law more. No matter who killed more innocent people. And of course, no matter what the others say.

I just hope these are all purely political statements, because i have absolutely no desire that Russia annihilates yet another country because some guys can't find common language out there.

 

[oRTouCH]

Thanks for your understanding.
Do you really believe that there is no chance that the world's superpowers convince Armenia to withdraw their troops there? If there is an injustice there, the international commitees should not be silent against such a situation and do whatever necessary, as they do against Iran.

 

[Shmack]

Thanks for your understanding.
Do you really believe that there is no chance that the world's superpowers convince Armenia to withdraw their troops there? If there is an injustice there, the international commitees should not be silent against such a situation and do whatever necessary, as they do against Iran.

That's a good example with Iran. They are trying to do smth against Iran because they are afraid of it. Even Russia. If Russia wasn't afraid of Iran with nukes, our generals would have already sold them all missiles the Iranians would ask for. No one cares about justice. So now, let's be honest with ourselves: who is afraid of Armenia or Azerbaijan? Europe? The only thing they are afraid of is Russia going completely nuts, so they will do everything possible to prevent a war. If they fail to do that, they will pretend that nothing special happened, send another negotiator (like Sarkozy) and 'help restore peace'. And the only reason for this is oil and gas. I hardly believe 1 out of 10 people in Europe (let alone the rest of the world) can pronounce Karabakh correctly on the first try.

I know, that doesn't sound fair, but this is it.

 

[oRTouCH]

If noone cares about justice in that region, than a war may emerge between this two countries. And if a war emerges in that region, Caucasia will be messed up.

 

[Shmack]

If noone cares about justice in that region, than a war may emerge between this two countries. And if a war emerges in that region, Caucasia will be messed up.

Alna yazilan basha gelir. This seems to be a cursed land.

 

[Prapor]

First of all watch your tongue! "Turkish bastards" statement that you used is so rude and this may lead you to be banned. If you are really looking for someone to name "bastard" I think you are suitable for it.

If Armenia is not alone, Azerbaijan will not be alone too. US and Turkey won't let a terrorist nation (ASALA is a terrorist group founded by Armenians and funded by Armenia, killed several innocent Turkish diplomats in Turkey and Europe) fight against Azerbaijan.

You Turks murdered 1,500,000 innocent Armenians. You committed a genocide. I don't care if that offends you, it is the truth. Also, before you go there, I also agree that Russia has, in fact, carried out similarly disturbing atrocities in North Caucasus, against Circassians, Chechens, us Cossacks (Lenin's Raskazachivanie) and others.

Armenia will not stand alone though, you are right about that. If there is a war tomorrow, if Russia does betray its brother, if Liliputin does not have the balls, I can tell you something, we will anyway. We, I mean Russian Cossacks. Kuban, Don, and Terek. We have came to fight in Armenian Karabakh, side bys ide, shoulder to shoulder with our Orthodox Christian brothers, the Armenians, and we will again, if necessary, thousands of us, Kuban alone has 140,000 fighters ready any day, and Don - 3 times that, easy. We are not, I repeat, not afraid of you or Azerbaijan. We live on the front line, face the Chechens every day, they are far, far scarier than you and your people, take my word on that. If you attack Armenia, we will fight you. And you will lose, no matter how many troops you send.

Together, we will prevail. We have beaten you in the Balkans, in South Caucasus, in East Europe. And USA will not help you. Not against Russia, because it does not want a nuclear war. Hell, what is USA doing now, against Israel, for killing all those 'peace activists' of yours?

If you do not war, if you do not want your country destroyed, stay away from Armenia. There will not be a new Armenian genocide. We won't let that happen.

 

[oRTouCH]

Kuban alone has 140,000 fighters ready any day, and Don - 3 times that, easy. We are not, I repeat, not afraid of you or Azerbaijan. We live on the front line, face the Chechens every day, they are far, far scarier than you and your people, take my word on that. If you attack Armenia, we will fight you. And you will lose, no matter how many troops you send.

I don't believe you are courageous enough to fight for Armenians, no matter who you are. Everyone is able make heroic talks before a battle, but when the time comes for fighting, they turn into crying babies in battlefield.

If something like that happens, Turkish Army will be waiting for you to defend their Azerbaijani brothers. Do not even try to underestimate the power of Turkey.

From now on I need to ignore what you post about this thread friend. Because I am about to lose my temper. You are accusing Turks with an unproven genocide and that means you are out of topic. But I will be glad to discuss in other threads with you.

 

[oRTouCH]

Alna yazilan basha gelir.

Turkish? Oh my? How? :cowb:

 

[Prapor]

If Azers want Karabakh back, they should return Nakhichevan to Armenia.

 

[Shmack]

Now, when your discussion has come to an end and turned into a flamewar, i'll put my 5 cents in on the issue.

Emmm.. right. I don't believe in the possibility of war over Karabakh. I'm not aware of Turkish-Azeri relations, but i see how Russia is placing high pressure on Armenia asking it not to act provocatively and remain unprovoked. I'm pretty sure, Turkey does the same, because these issues are of high political importance in both Russia and Turkey, and political powers in both countries have to swear to its people that they won't betray nation's allies and interests. That certainly doesn't mean that they are waiting to engage in a huge war as soon as possible.

Anyway, if smth goes wrong and a war breaks out.. It is not very hard to predict its scenario. Inexorable logic tells us that in case of war Azerbaijan will be the side that launches the first attack, since it is their land that is occupied. I'm sure they will get very well prepared for it and try to gain huge military superiority over both Karabakh and Armenia. The same day Azerbaijan invades Karabakh Armenia will go all-in, recognize its independence and will send its troops there. Now comes the most interesting...

In case if the Republic of Armenia becomes one of the sides in a war, Russia's getting involved becomes unquestionable. That's way they will do it in the same way as they did it in Georgia: they will send in a huge ammount of armor to the Russian military bases (which are even now 10 times bigger than those that were being kept in Ossetia prior to the war) in Armenia in advance, a day or two before Azeri offensive. So when Azeri aircrafts will bomb Armenian airfields and military bases, Russian troops will be already waiting there and pretend they weren't expecting that and Russia's position will be "Azerbaijan launched a treacherous attack against international treaties and performed a genocide against the civilians". No need to explain what comes next.

Turkey will find itself in a tricky situation. They just won't be able to get involved before Russia, and there won't be any sence in getting involved after Russia. The possibility of both Turkish and Russian involvment at the same time is absolute ZERO.

The most probable and the easiest scenario is keeping everything like it is today. It's peace out there and no one in the world cares about it.

Turkish? Oh my? How? :cowb:

Languages used to be my hobbie when i was a student.

 

[oRTouCH]

I also believe that there won't be a huge war in that region, but every side will try their best to end this situation. Azerbaijan will make pressure diplomatically to get Karabakh back and Armenia will try their best not to let it happen. Like the diplomatic struggle about Cyprus.