Arabs in the Israeli Army

[senojekips]

Again you are distorting the facts by listing something that is not valid anymore.2011"

Stop talking rubbish, and then making even more stupid statements to try and justify them.

We were talking of the criminally stupid items that have been banned by Israel in their attempts to reduce the living conditions of the Palestinians in Gaza to that of animals. Which is not only a crime against Humanity, but it also contravenes the Geneva Conventions IV, art. 33 (1949).

The fact that Israel later lifted some of the more ridiculous of them under International pressure, is certainly no credit to Israel.

As for you photos, who is to say that they were not specially set up Hamas propaganda shots, or for that matter they were even shot in Gaza. Had they have shown a packed market of hundreds of stalls similarly stocked in a clearly identifiable part of Gaza, you may have proved that there were what appears to be sweets and fruit available on that day, but otherwise it proves nothing.

For such a "well stocked market" in one of the most densely populated areas in the world there don't appear to be very many customers.We have more customers at the farmers market in my home town of 2000 people, and also it definitely doesn't match up with the reports of virtually every major humanitarian agency who has been there in the last five years or more. I'd say that they are almost certainly posed propaganda shots.

 

[VDKMS]

Stop talking rubbish, and then making even more stupid statements to try and justify them.

We were talking of the criminally stupid items that have been banned by Israel in their attempts to reduce the living conditions of the Palestinians in Gaza to that of animals. Which is not only a crime against Humanity, but it also contravenes the Geneva Conventions IV, art. 33 (1949).

The fact that Israel later lifted some of the more ridiculous of them under International pressure, is certainly no credit to Israel.

As for you photos, who is to say that they were not specially set up Hamas propaganda shots, or for that matter they were even shot in Gaza. Had they have shown a packed market of hundreds of stalls similarly stocked in a clearly identifiable part of Gaza, you may have proved that there were what appears to be sweets and fruit available on that day, but otherwise it proves nothing.

For such a "well stocked market" in one of the most densely populated areas in the world there don't appear to be very many customers.We have more customers at the farmers market in my home town of 2000 people, and also it definitely doesn't match up with the reports of virtually every major humanitarian agency who has been there in the last five years or more. I'd say that they are almost certainly posed propaganda shots.

Wake up! All this is real. Read the article in the New York Times here

People in Gaza want to have a life just like anyone else instead of attacking Israel. They want peace. Thanks to the Arab Spring they get a little bit more freedom from their leaders who are only interested in destroying Israel. Palestinians are more and more becoming fed up with that.

Hamas police violently dispersed several peaceful demonstrations in Gaza beginning March 15, 2011, including sealing off access to public squares and universities and beating trapped demonstrators.

Human Rights Watch : West Bank/Gaza: Stop Harassing Journalists

Human Rights Watch : Gaza: Halt Morality Enforcement Campaign

Peace will come when the attacks on Israel stops. Palestinian people know that but their leadership not. Do you know why? Because of religion, Non-Muslim countries are not allowed on Muslim land. That's how the conflict started.

 

[senojekips]

People in Gaza want to have a life just like anyone else instead of attacking Israel. They want peace.

Of course they want peace you idiot, but they are not going to give their country to a foreign invader just to get it. Unlike you, they have morals and a bit of backbone and will stand up for what is rightfully theirs.

If Israel wants peace, get out of someone else's country and stop harassing, beating and murdering their people.

You forget that these so called "bad guys" you try to demonise, are the elected Government doing what they were elected to do by those people you claim to quote. What they do in their own country is none of your business, especially when you support a regime that that has been stealing from, beating, harassing and murdering Palestinians, and has been doing it for over 60 years.

So,.. you want to talk about harassment of journalists. You must be a certifiable idiot for even raising that point. There are at least thirty other videos available just for this subject. Israeli attacks on journalists is perhaps one of the most reported acts of thuggery reported in the news.

Israels harrassment of US journalists

And Israeli Police violently disperse peaceful Israeli demonstrators, http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...eMlAAAAIBAJ&sjid=X_wFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4246,6480369

Israeli police violently attack peaceful Israelis

You see,... even Israelis agree that they are in the wrong, but the Zionist thugs will beat them into submission, and you have the unmitigated gall to point the finger at Hamas??
..... and also beating Israeli Rabbis, such charming people you support.

Armed Zionist Thugs beating Rabbis

There's plenty more, lots and lots,....

 

[VDKMS]

Of course they want peace you idiot, but they are not going to give their country to a foreign invader just to get it. Unlike you, they have morals and a bit of backbone and will stand up for what is rightfully theirs.

Israel does not intent to annex Gaza or the West Bank, and if you don't believe that you are paranoid.
And if they wanted a Palestinian state then they should have fought for it before the Jews got one, they've had plenty of time to do that. So I think it wasn't quite urgent.

If Israel wants peace, get out of someone else's country and stop harassing, beating and murdering their people.

Who's country? You are talking about something that does not exists. Israel does exist and is a UN member state and has no sovereignty disputes. Look here : List of sovereign states

You forget that these so called "bad guys" you try to demonise, are the elected Government doing what they were elected to do by those people you claim to quote. What they do in their own country is none of your business, especially when you support a regime that that has been stealing from, beating, harassing and murdering Palestinians, and has been doing it for over 60 years.

That government didn't respect international agreements. That's why it was boycoted by Israel, the United States, the European Union, several Western states, and the Arab states. Hamas must fullfil '3 Demands,' recognizing Israel, accepting agreements made by the Palestinian Authority under the previous Fatah-led Administration, and denouncing violence.

Does it not yet occurred to you that whatever you post (pictures, clips) about Israel I can counter with the same about the Palestinians?

You are an atheist and yet you stand by Hamas? Have your ever read their charter?
Article 8 The Hamas document reiterates the Muslim Brotherhood's slogan of "Allah is its goal, the Prophet is the model, the Qur'an its constitution, jihad its path, and death for the sake of Allah its most sublime belief.
Article 15 "The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim".It states the history of crusades into Muslim lands and says the "Palestinian problem is a religious problem"

Read article 15 very good, it includes Spain, because Spain was once Muslim land. Do not underestimate Islam, it's full of references to violence and occupation.

 

[RayManKiller3]

While Palestine is recognized by 127 members, it don't have recognition of the countries that are powerful enough to help it get a state.

This includes Australia, UK, U.S, and many EU nations. It is pretty obvious Russia and China would agree with Palestine state (especially Russia). A good deal of those that accepts Palestine are Muslim countries or competes with the Western countries.


This is what I mean, Palestine are getting support from people that can't give them their statehood while at the same time, their Islamic buddies push away those that can.

 

[senojekips]

Israel does not intent to annex Gaza or the West Bank, and if you don't believe that you are paranoid.

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.” Who said that, I wonder?

And if they wanted a Palestinian state then they should have fought for it before the Jews got one, they've had plenty of time to do that. So I think it wasn't quite urgent.

You powers of logic are right up there this morning. Just stop and think for a second.

Before the Jews invaded, the Palestinians were told that they were going to get their homeland,... so who would they have fought? They were not as treacherous as the Jews who illegally attacked the mandated British administration to get what they wanted.

Who's country? You are talking about something that does not exists. Israel does exist and is a UN member state and has no sovereignty disputes. Look here : List of sovereign states

How many times do we have to go through this? You are really struggling to get a grip on reality aren't you. Being a sovereign state has no influence on who owns the land. Sources have already been supplied, and quotes from people such as David Ben Gurion substantiate this fact.

If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country.

We= the Israelis,... "have taken"=stolen or illegally acquired" ,... "their country"= the country belonging to the Palestinians. The fact that this statement admits that the land belonging to the Palestinians "their country", was taken, is an open admission of theft or illegal occupation.
You see, it is the constant denial of facts such as this which clearly demonstrates your total lack of any factual knowledge and even worse, any desire to acquire it. You have the intellect of a cinder block.

That government didn't respect international agreements.

Firstly, they are a democratically elected government in their own country, and there were no International conditions on that election. Unlike Israel's admittance to the UN, which was conditional upon many things,... like the fact that no harm must come to the native population. Tell me more about unfulfilled conditions and I will give you twice as many that apply to Israel.

Does it not yet occurred to you that whatever you post (pictures, clips) about Israel I can counter with the same about the Palestinians?

Yes, but you only post opinions of Israeli propagandists, very short on actual footage, I'll guarantee that I can find far more live videos of actual beatings harassment and murder or innocent civilians than you can. In any case the videos I provided were merely to counter your rather ludicrous claim, that these were Palestinian shortcomings, and to demonstrate that Israeli police and army also beats it's peaceful demonstrators. If I do not do this, you resort to your usual answer, baseless denial, which is hard to do when you have the video evidence in front of you.

So,... you didn't like me showing that the Israelis are far worse than the Palestinians at your alleged crimes.:lol: Remember the Israelis are doing these things to support an illegal occupation whereas the Palestinians are merely attempting to sabotage the effort of these criminals, and they are doing what they were elected to do. A great difference,....

You are an atheist and yet you stand by Hamas? Have your ever read their charter?

Please quote exactly where I said that,... again you distort the facts to suit your story. It just comes down to which one I dislike the most,.. and for any human being with an ounce of moral fibre there is no contest, Israel wins hands down.

Read article 15 very good, it includes Spain, because Spain was once Muslim land. Do not underestimate Islam, it's full of references to violence and occupation.

I don't give a flying fcuk about Islam, I'm far more concerned that the actions of Israel in Palestine which has led the world into an era of Global Terrorism, the likes of which we have never seem before.

 

[RayManKiller3]

It just comes down to which one I dislike the most,.. and for any human being with an ounce of moral fibre there is no contest, Israel wins hands down.

Morality is subjective most of the time. Just because your morales are like this doesn't mean others should be as well, this do not mean that they have any less or any more morality than you.

I on the other hand see Hamas as more a pain in my side than Israel. These Palestinians do not want to recognize a Jewish state, but they want other countries to accept their Sharia law? That is BS, they might as well say they are an Islamic country and it show how religion plays a huge part in the opposition against Israel (on the Islamic side).

A country that openly uses terror should not be caved into; due to Hamas it really hurts Palestinian relations.

However, many nations, even the U.S is willing to accept Palestine. This is if they open peace talks back up with Israel. Even your country agrees with this.

 

[MontyB]

Morality is subjective most of the time. Just because your morales are like this doesn't mean others should be as well, this do not mean that they have any less or any more morality than you.

I on the other hand see Hamas as more a pain in my side than Israel. These Palestinians do not want to recognize a Jewish state, but they want other countries to accept their Sharia law? That is BS, they might as well say they are an Islamic country and it show how religion plays a huge part in the opposition against Israel (on the Islamic side).

A country that openly uses terror should not be caved into; due to Hamas it really hurts Palestinian relations.

However, many nations, even the U.S is willing to accept Palestine. This is if they open peace talks back up with Israel. Even your country agrees with this.

You have no idea how much I would like to have avoided this thread but you have made it impossible... What countries have the Palestinians asked to convert to Sharia law?

As far as not caving in to terrorism goes you are right but if that had been done right from the start there would be no Israel, they are a nation born of terrorism and it is somewhat hypocritical of them to be crying about it now, seems that you really do reap what you sew.

The unfortunate thing is some guy has come here to post about Arabs in the Israeli army and all he has received is 11 pages of totally unrelated bitching it is really a shame we can not seem to stay on a topic.

 

[senojekips]

Morality is subjective most of the time.

No, I wouldn't say that, but it is certainly measured in degrees. It appears that it only becomes subjective when people wish to avoid the unpleasant truth. When it's all said and done morality is no more than knowing the difference between right and wrong, and adhering to it as best you can. Zionists have made no attempt to do the right thing from day one.

You have no idea how much I would like to have avoided this thread but you have made it impossible... ---snip---

The unfortunate thing is some guy has come here to post about Arabs in the Israeli army and all he has received is 11 pages of totally unrelated bitching it is really a shame we can not seem to stay on a topic.

You see MontyB, those of us who have an interest in the subject, all have our limit as to to how much rubbish and blatant propaganda we can just ignore,... and by your own admission, that does on occasion include yourself. Apparently I just have a lower tolerance for bullsh!t than you do. We all have our limits,...

It's hardly a bad thing if it brings even the smallest truth to bear.

My point being that the original post was nothing less than a very thinly disguised attempt at Zionist propaganda.

 

[VDKMS]

“We must expel the Arabs and take their places.” Who said that, I wonder?

Wow! Again a distortion of a fact. Here's the REAL quote:
"We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs." Letter to his son Amos (5 October 1937). Look here.

Before the Jews invaded, the Palestinians were told that they were going to get their homeland,... so who would they have fought? They were not as treacherous as the Jews who illegally attacked the mandated British administration to get what they wanted.

Another distortion of the facts. It's one of those questions you never answered. Where did you get this quail?
About the attacks, I prooved more than once who really started the attacks, with dates! Where are yours??

How many times do we have to go through this? You are really struggling to get a grip on reality aren't you. Being a sovereign state has no influence on who owns the land. Sources have already been supplied, and quotes from people such as David Ben Gurion substantiate this fact.

A small but important correction, he was not talking about the Palestinians, he was talking about the Arabs. The Arabs were promised a country, not the Palestinians. So, again you are distorting the facts.

We= the Israelis,... "have taken"=stolen or illegally acquired" ,... "their country"= the country belonging to the Palestinians. The fact that this statement admits that the land belonging to the Palestinians "their country", was taken, is an open admission of theft or illegal occupation.
You see, it is the constant denial of facts such as this which clearly demonstrates your total lack of any factual knowledge and even worse, any desire to acquire it. You have the intellect of a cinder block.

Read my reply above?

Firstly, they are a democratically elected government in their own country, and there were no International conditions on that election. Unlike Israel's admittance to the UN, which was conditional upon many things,... like the fact that no harm must come to the native population. Tell me more about unfulfilled conditions and I will give you twice as many that apply to Israel.

Show me where the word "native" is used in any of these UN tresolutions:
UN General Assembly Resolution 181
UN General Assembly Resolution 194
UN General Assembly Resolution 273
Like usual you are distorting the facts.

Yes, but you only post opinions of Israeli propagandists, very short on actual footage, I'll guarantee that I can find far more live videos of actual beatings harassment and murder or innocent civilians than you can. In any case the videos I provided were merely to counter your rather ludicrous claim, that these were Palestinian shortcomings, and to demonstrate that Israeli police and army also beats it's peaceful demonstrators. If I do not do this, you resort to your usual answer, baseless denial, which is hard to do when you have the video evidence in front of you.

So Human Rights Watch and the New York Times are Israeli propagandists?

So,... you didn't like me showing that the Israelis are far worse than the Palestinians at your alleged crimes.:lol: Remember the Israelis are doing these things to support an illegal occupation whereas the Palestinians are merely attempting to sabotage the effort of these criminals, and they are doing what they were elected to do. A great difference,....

That's just your opinion, I have another one.

Please quote exactly where I said that,... again you distort the facts to suit your story. It just comes down to which one I dislike the most,.. and for any human being with an ounce of moral fibre there is no contest, Israel wins hands down.

This is a good one. Israel does not endanger their own population, Hamas does.
At least 600 Palestinians died in fighting between Hamas and Fatah. Human Rights Watch, a U.S.-based group, accused both sides in the conflict of torture and war crimes.Article here. Killing and torturing their own people. I am not talking about a "protest" but a real war between Fatah and Hamas.

I don't give a flying fcuk about Islam, I'm far more concerned that the actions of Israel in Palestine which has led the world into an era of Global Terrorism, the likes of which we have never seem before.

No, this started it all : Speeches by Arab religious leaders (Haj Amin al-Husseini ) during the festival, in which traditionally large numbers of Muslims gathered for a religious procession, led to a serious outbreak of violent assaults on the city's Jews, with five Jews killed and hundreds wounded.

Well, your view of global terrorism is totally wrong. Remember the questions I asked about that? Up untill today you didn't answer them.

 

[VDKMS]

As far as not caving in to terrorism goes you are right but if that had been done right from the start there would be no Israel, they are a nation born of terrorism and it is somewhat hypocritical of them to be crying about it now, seems that you really do reap what you sew.

I strongly disagree on that. I proved that with dates who started it all. The Israelis then started to defend themselves and when that didn't work they started with attacks. Remember that the first attacks came on Jews who were praying not on Jews who owned Arab (the word Palestinian was rarely used then) land.

The unfortunate thing is some guy has come here to post about Arabs in the Israeli army and all he has received is 11 pages of totally unrelated bitching it is really a shame we can not seem to stay on a topic.

You're right. Think I'm gonna make a new thread where we can go on. Just have to find a "right" title.

 

[RayManKiller3]

You have no idea how much I would like to have avoided this thread but you have made it impossible... What countries have the Palestinians asked to convert to Sharia law?

As far as not caving in to terrorism goes you are right but if that had been done right from the start there would be no Israel, they are a nation born of terrorism and it is somewhat hypocritical of them to be crying about it now, seems that you really do reap what you sew.

The unfortunate thing is some guy has come here to post about Arabs in the Israeli army and all he has received is 11 pages of totally unrelated bitching it is really a shame we can not seem to stay on a topic.

I should have been more clear; I was talking about the Islamic countries that DO have Sharia law. The fact that NATO helped Lybia and it turns out to want Sharia law, does very ill reputation for all other Islamic dominant countries.

I was 100% critisizing other countries that claim Israel should not be a Jewish state, but they want western countries to recognize that they will rule by Sharia law.

My bad for not being clear, I should've thought more on that.

On the fact of terrorism created Israel, you may be right, but what I said still stands. Also, just because one used terrorism doesn't mean the other should stoop to that level. If this was so, then U.S, U.K, and other victim countries of terrorism would do the same thing. It gives no more say for the Palestinians just because Israel was created out of "terrorism". The definition of terrorism usually means purposely attacking non-combatants. Due to the nature of the Jewish "terrorist", I have a hard time comparing them with the terorist of Hamas and other Islamic groups; they go far beyond what Jewish terrorists did.

I mean seriously? Fly a plane into 2 buildings, killing 3K+ people simply because you hate U.S? I don't see how you will gain love and respect like that; this is why citizens have a hard time supporting Islamic groups (including Palestine).

 

[RayManKiller3]

No, I wouldn't say that, but it is certainly measured in degrees. It appears that it only becomes subjective when people wish to avoid the unpleasant truth. When it's all said and done morality is no more than knowing the difference between right and wrong, and adhering to it as best you can. Zionists have made no attempt to do the right thing from day one.

You see MontyB, those of us who have an interest in the subject, all have our limit as to to how much rubbish and blatant propaganda we can just ignore,... and by your own admission, that does on occasion include yourself. Apparently I just have a lower tolerance for bullsh!t than you do. We all have our limits,...

It's hardly a bad thing if it brings even the smallest truth to bear.

My point being that the original post was nothing less than a very thinly disguised attempt at Zionist propaganda.

No, morality really is subjective. What is right to you may not be right to others. Standards of morality is what the majority agree on as a whole. Inidividual morality do exist and it don't always have to do with avoiding the truth.

As for what Monty said; he misunderstood or I misrepresented what I was saying. That is the only reason he said anything, which I corrected in the post above this.

As for who started this "11 pages of bitching", it was you Seno, with your complete rubbish statements starting from the very 2nd post. Calling them "turncoats" and the action "despicable", you can say that for many different nationalities.

You literally turned this thread into a pile of garbage. All the stuff we are talking about is completely irrelevant to the thread anyways.

 

[senojekips]

No, morality really is subjective. What is right to you may not be right to others. Standards of morality is what the majority agree on as a whole. Inidividual morality do exist and it don't always have to do with avoiding the truth.

That's probably the worst attempted copout in this thread. As I said morality is knowing the difference between right and wrong. I know it does not suit your argument, because you know you supporting the side of wrong and I'm sure you are fully aware of it.

Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong).

As for what Monty said; he misunderstood or I misinterpreted what I was saying. That is the only reason he said anything, which I corrected in the post above this.

I'll give him the chance to answer that, but again I'd say it's a cop out. Like every time the Israelis are caught out, they are always "misunderstood" or it was an "accident", it's never their fault. It seems to have rubbed off.

As for who started this "11 pages of bitching", it was you Seno, with your complete rubbish statements starting from the very 2nd post. Calling them "turncoats" and the action "despicable", you can say that for many different nationalities.

I seem th remember a man in American history called Benedict Arnold, I bet you don't think that he was a turncoat either? What about Adam Yahiye Gadahn, and Iva Toguri,.... not traitors either I suppose? You apply different terminology to turncoats when it does not suit your argument, and might even be considered laughable, if it were not so damned pathetic.

 

[senojekips]

Wow! Again a distortion of a fact. Here's the REAL quote:
"We do not wish, we do not need to expel the Arabs and take their place. All our aspirations are built upon the assumption — proven throughout all our activity in the Land — that there is enough room in the country for ourselves and the Arabs." Letter to his son Amos (5 October 1937). Look here.

Well I suppose this is a distortion too.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

It's a great pity for your argument that this is so well documented, and based on this I would also say that my first quote was also probably correct as it is in line with the above quote. I'd say that it's far more likely that the israelis have attempted to deny it by suddenly producing this alleged "letter"

Another distortion of the facts. It's one of those questions you never answered.

Liar! So you imply that the Btitish illegally attacked the Zionists? All sources have been posted, and the palestinians were promised a homeland in 1915 and sources have been posted. the best you have done is repetitious denial.

A small but important correction, he was not talking about the Palestinians, he was talking about the Arabs. The Arabs were promised a country, not the Palestinians. So, again you are distorting the facts.

You know as well as I do that the land in question was to be a Pan Arab state including the Palestinians. No mention was made of a Jewish inclusion.

Read my reply above?

I did and showed it to be a lie. Now what?

Show me where the word "native" is used in any of these UN tresolutions:
UN General Assembly Resolution 181
UN General Assembly Resolution 273
Like usual you are distorting the facts.

other than which the fact that one specific word was not used has no bearing upon the intent of the conditions. Like the condition in Article 11
"
Article 11 reads:
Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible.What happened to that? instead, Israel deliberately imposed conditions that made it impossible for refugees to return. Like having no claim on all previous possessions. ???

So Human Rights Watch and the New York Times are Israeli propagandists?

Human right watch supports the Palestinians, and the New York Times, is owned by Rupert Murdoch. Don't you know who he is? This is the Jewish newspaper owner at present under investigation for other criminal activities.

That's just your opinion, I have another one.

Your past history being what it is, i wouldn't boast about that.

This is a good one. Israel does not endanger their own population, Hamas does.

Neither does Hamas, they merely do as they were elected to do. Warfare endangers the population at any time and israel are committed to keep waging war. Even in the ceasefires they have an ongoing campaign of harassment and provocation of the Palestinian population

Well, your view of global terrorism is totally wrong. Remember the questions I asked about that? Up until today you didn't answer them.

I have answered everything, it's just that you deny the facts, and try approaching the questions from a different angle hoping to get a different answer. but facts are facts and the answers will always be the same, so I ignore them

 

[RayManKiller3]

That's probably the worst attempted copout in this thread. As I said morality is knowing the difference between right and wrong. I know it does not suit your argument, because you know you supporting the side of wrong and I'm sure you are fully aware of it.

I'll give him the chance to answer that, but again I'd say it's a cop out. Like every time the Israelis are caught out, they are always "misunderstood" or it was an "accident", it's never their fault. It seems to have rubbed off.

I seem th remember a man in American history called Benedict Arnold, I bet you don't think that he was a turncoat either? What about Adam Yahiye Gadahn, and Iva Toguri,.... not traitors either I suppose? You apply different terminology to turncoats when it does not suit your argument, and might even be considered laughable, if it were not so damned pathetic.

I know what morality means; what you said do not counter what I said. Who the heck defines right from wrong? People, am I incorrect? However, right and wrong are ideals, subject to the individual and/or group that agrees with it. Therefore, morality is completely debatable except in much more obvious cases.

No, it is not just the turncoat part you said that I was talking about. You said it was "despicable". You used both in the same statement, which makes it debatable. You also said they were throwing away their morals Who are you to tell them they are despicable for deciding to side for one side over the other? The only way I would see it as a despicable action is if they went traitor for selfish reasons or unethical reasons.

Should someone blindly follow a leader to their doom because being traitor is despicable? I don't think so.

 

[senojekips]

I know what morality means; what you said do not counter what I said. Who the heck defines right from wrong? People, am I incorrect?

Yes!, you are wrong, and obviously you have no idea of what morality is. By your reckoning that would mean that because a criminal sees nothing wrong in his actions, they are morally correct?? C'mon stop making excuses it's an insult to human intelligence.

No, it is not just the turncoat part you said that I was talking about. You said it was "despicable".

Ahhh,... so you've been misunderstood again?...
It is certainly despicable in the case we are talking about because these turncoats are giving aid to a regime that has been stealing from, harassing, beating, murdering and generally treating their own people like animals for 60 years. Worse than the half Jews who supported the Nazis. That's not despicable?

You can't have it both ways. You have a conveniently short memory when it suits you, it's time you started thinking a little.

 

[RayManKiller3]

Yes!, you are wrong, and obviously you have no idea of what morality is. By your reckoning that would mean that because a criminal sees nothing wrong in his actions, they are morally correct?? C'mon stop making excuses it's an insult to human intelligence.

Ahhh,... so you've been misunderstood again?...
It is certainly despicable in the case we are talking about because these turncoats are giving aid to a regime that has been stealing from, harassing, beating, murdering and generally treating their own people like animals for 60 years. Worse than the half Jews who supported the Nazis. That's not despicable?

You can't have it both ways. You have a conveniently short memory when it suits you, it's time you started thinking a little.

Please read my whole statement again.... I said morality is subjective, but there are standards placed, which is what the majority of people will agree is moral or immoral. By my "reckoning", the majority set what is moral therefore in your theoretical situation, is is morally incorrect. However, he can still believe he is morally correct, but that just means he is very blind to what he did lol.


Whether it is despicable to me would depend on the situation at hand. Comparing these turncoats to the half-Jewish Nazi turncoats is quite odd. Kind of like people comparing Bush to Hitler, simply because he is a "war monger". I don't see Israeli crimes comparable to Hitler who is responsible for the deaths of 70+ million people (not including some of Soviet's casulties because they persecuted their own people).

No, I can see the reasoning for which they choose to side with the Israelis. Why chooise to side with those that anger the communities. Remember, it is Hamas that screws things up for Palestinian people. Why choose the side who purposely kills civillians, not just in their country, but in other countries.


Tell me, how is removal of Israel "moral". It gained its independence, it should not have it taken away simply because of a mistake in the past (especially since it been here for quite some time). We all agree that Palestine should be a state, what we disagree with is why it should be and the fact that you want Israel to be removed from the "Palestinian" lands. Removal of Israel is too late, it is there; removing it could have potential negative effects.

 

[senojekips]

Please read my whole statement again.... I said morality is subjective, but there are standards placed, which is what the majority of people will agree is moral or immoral. By my "reckoning", the majority set what is moral therefore in your theoretical situation, is is morally incorrect. However, he can still believe he is morally correct, but that just means he is very blind to what he did lol.

As you are in this situation and the israelis in regard to the Palestinians. You just shot down your own argument. Thank you..

Whether it is despicable to me would depend on the situation at hand. Comparing these turncoats to the half-Jewish Nazi turncoats is quite odd. Kind of like people comparing Bush to Hitler, simply because he is a "war monger". I don't see Israeli crimes comparable to Hitler who is responsible for the deaths of 70+ million people (not including some of Soviet's casulties because they persecuted their own people).

Hitler, where did I say Hitler?? I said about the jews and half jews that followed Hitler,... that's how you sink yourself so quickly, you read what you want to see instead of what is actually written.

No, I can see the reasoning for which they choose to side with the Israelis. Why chooise to side with those that anger the communities.

Of course you can, just like you understand the half Jews who willingly fought for the nazis and Major Nidal Malik Hasan who recently shot how many US Servicemen? You like they, have no morals so it's hardly a consideration for you. Your "morality" changes to suit your purpose.

Tell me, how is removal of Israel "moral". It gained its independence, it should not have it taken away simply because of a mistake in the past

Of course it's moral, as it is moral to correct any wrong, what is immoral, is not correcting a mistake. Your personal view is all very convenient if you are an Israeli. "Lets just let it slide",... like I suppose we should have allowed Saddam to keep talking shite and generally pissing people about. You conveniently forget, that nowhere in the UN constitution does it give them (or anyone else) the right to just give someone's country to another party, much less a people who have nothing more in common than merely being of the one religion.

 

[AnnaLeland]

thanks so much