Arabs in the Israeli Army
senojekips
Active member
Sorry, but you are again merely saying what I have said about you all along. Tell me that is not distortion. LOL
You never learn and you certainly don't improve do you.
You still have not been able to tell me why if my views are wrong, they are supported by virtually every International Humanitarian agency in the world, Red Cross, Medecins Sans Frontieres, CARE, Amnesty International, and of course the UNHCR and the ICJ, and then of course there are the Jewish groups like, Jews for justice in Palestine, and B'Tselem.
It makes your whole argument rather stupid doesn't it? You've got to do better than just baseless denial. (called lies by all but the Zionists)
| Rabbis from Israel | |
It was doomed from the start Ben. The truth about Israel will always show them to have been the aggressors and their continued record of war crimes and crimes against humanity supports that finding.
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senojekips
Active member
Some people just have no sense of adventure.
The difference is, you have not disproved one fact of mine. Saying it is Zionist propaganda is not disproving a fact. While I have disproved many "facts" of you.
See, typically you. You take out what you like and leave out what you don't like. Virtually every International Humanitarian agency in the world condems them both.
UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon called for an immediate ceasefire and condemned both Israel and Hamas
United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860 : the resolution was unsuccessful as Israel and Hamas ignored it and the fighting continued.
A spokesman for the European Union's Foreign Policy Chief, Javier Solana : called for an "unconditional halt" of Hamas rocket attacks and Israeli military action.
28-12-2008 News Release 08/248 : "The ICRC calls on those involved in the hostilities to exercise restraint..."
Amnesty International :...unacceptable for Israel to continue to purposefully deprive 1.5 million people of food and other basic necessities and ... Hamas and all other Palestinian armed groups in Gaza to stop firing indiscriminate rockets against towns and villages in southern Israel ( info here )
B'Tselem : "Human rights organizations reported that, since the blast in the coffee shop, Hamas security forces in the Gaza Strip and Fatah security forces in the West Bank have committed grave human rights violations." info here
International reaction to the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict
Black : Israel-Gaza
Dark blue : States that endorsed the Israeli position/defined Israel's action as falling within its right to defense.
Light blue : States that condemned Hamas action only.
Dark red : States that endorsed the Hamas position/defined Hamas' actions as falling within its right of resistance.
Light red : States that condemned Israeli action only.
Green : States that called for an end to hostilities, and condemned neither/both belligerents.
Grey : States that made no official statement on the conflict.
Look at the lower right corner, your beloved Australia which according to your post 61 in this tread is "a moral and law abiding country totally without colonialist visions so we respect the rule of international law" And in case you still don't get it they endorsed the Israeli position/defined Israel's action as falling within its right to defense.
And what's your position? Dark red according to your posts. So that leaves you, Iran and North Korea (one is toppled). Nice company I must say.
I'm with Australia. Dark blue.
Does it?
Looks who doomed it : post2
I have another one you doomed : the thread "Should we quit the UN" post 2
senojekips
Active member
Bullsh!t!
What, did you think that I'd be too stupid to check? The Resolution against Israel reads "
SECURITY COUNCIL CALLS FOR IMMEDIATE, DURABLE, FULLY RESPECTED CEASEFIRE IN GAZA LEADING TO FULL WITHDRAWAL OF ISRAELI FORCES
Resolution 1860 (2009) Adopted by 14 in Favour, Abstention by United States;
Also Calls for Unimpeded Humanitarian Assistance, Welcomes Egyptian Initiative
The reason that Gaza started sending airborne reminders to the Israelis in 2007/8, was because the Israelis had, as usual, never intended to abide by their side of the ceasefire, and had besieged Gaza with holding food and all humanitarian aid in a deliberate attempt to provoke Hamas. This was verified by Israelis military members, one of whom was imprisoned for 4 and a half years for passing Israeli army documents to Haaretz detailing their plans ans deceptions.
Tell me you were not aware of this, so we can all see exactly how ill informed you are.
and how many resolutions have condemned Hamas as compared with Israel? Is it not true that Israel has the dubious honour of having had more resolutions raised against it's criminal behaviour than all other countries combined? And yet you have the unmitigated gall to comment upon the company that others keep,...
but they have never tried to have charges of War Crimes and Crimes against humanity bought against them as they have with Israel.
They have only fired purposely, the only thing indescriminate is because they have no guided weapons. Give them the weapons and technology that the US has given Israel and there would be no indiscriminate rockets.
B'tselem's whole raison d'etre is to disclose Israel's continued criminal activities against the Palestinians. Why?... because even Israelis admit that they are ashamed of the criminal acts of their government being undertaken in their name, as are the Jews for Justice in Palestine and the Rabbis for Palestine, Neturei Karta, as well as any number of learned Jewish academics and humanitarians.
Jews for Palestine said:
Don't be so sure about australias views as demonstrated by your map. it's one thing to claim something and something else to find the truth. And since when was the continued theft of Palestinian land considered as self defence. I'm not even talking of more illegal military actions, but the actions of so called "peaceful settlers"? Australia's government is effectively held to ransom by the US., you've never understood "official diplomacy" have you? never the less the cracks beginning to show in that "diplomacy". I'll guarantee if it were put to a plebiscite tomorrow, any visible support for Israel would fail miserably in Australia. See below
"Only last week, the opposition foreign affairs spokesperson Julie Bishop accused the elected government of emboldening those against Israel. On Thursday, the Government had voted against Bishop’s motion calling on the House to reaffirm its support for Israel and a two-state solution". Your so called "support for Israel in Australia" is largely a public relations illusion, as is your rather ambitious map. http://www.jewishnews.net.au/government-accused-of-failing-israel/21175
Yes it does. doesn't it?
Neither of them took any effort on my behalf, LOL,.... they were both still born, only needing the pronouncement of the fact. You are just miffed because I pointed out another indesputable fact showing Israel's propaganda to be just that and no more. (Lies)
Give yourself another weeks break, to try and find another way of re-presenting your same old failed arguments, the answer will always be the same,... you FAIL! Meanwhile I'll rewind my tape recorder to re answer your stupidity,... again. Or maybe not....
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84RFK
Active member
Some people just have no sense of adventure.
Nah, been out hunting mostly, that's more my kind of adventure really.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Pulls the plug and hides it.
I wrote : "United Nations Security Council Resolution 1860 : the resolution was unsuccessful as Israel and Hamas ignored it and the fighting continued."
As usual your answer destorts the fact by picking out the things you like and leaving out the things you don't like. You only read the title and not the article.
You didn't check.
This is what you forgot : "including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition," and "emphasising that the Palestinian and Israeli civilian populations must be protected,"
You can read the full document here
By leaving this out you give the reader the impression that the UN resolution was only about Israel, which it wasn't. Answer my question: why did you leave out the Palestinian side of the resolution?
So you call deadly rockets airborne reminders???
Then why is Human Rights Watch against it? Gaza: Stop Rocket Attacks Against Israel Civilians.
you forget to mention that there were economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority imposed by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East and would be lifted if:
- Renunciation of violence,
- Recognition of Israel by the Hamas government (as the PLO had done), and
- Acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the Palestinian National Authority.
The Israeli military members were jailed, in Gaza Hamas would have killed them without trials.
See this : Human Rights Watch says Islamist group killed at least 32 in attacks on political rivals and suspected collaborators
and Amnesty International has accused Hamas militants in Gaza of kidnapping, killing and torturing fellow Palestinians they accuse of spying for Israel, the organization announced Tuesday. Info here.
Another Palestinian fable is that Hamas leaders complain Israel is causing poverty.
Then read this article and here
here a picturealestinians shopping at the new al-Andulusia mall in Gaza City on August 16, 2011.Photo by: AP
Another story about who holds of the peace:
Israeli-Palestinian soccer 'peace team' to face Barcelona's stars Exhibition match, to be attended by Shimon Peres, also gets active support from movie actor Sean Connery. Article here
And what does the PA do?
"The Palestinian FA will form a committee to investigate the players who participated in the match ... everyone involved will be punished," senior FA official Jamal Zaqout told Reuters.
Well well well, once again you read the title but not the article.
I quote : "In their responses, Labor MPs noted their party’s ongoing support for Israel, but accused Bishop of “petty point scoring”.
Then answer my questions of my "so called failed arguments" !
As usual your answer destorts the fact by picking out the things you like and leaving out the things you don't like. You only read the title and not the article.
You didn't check.
This is what you forgot : "including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition," and "emphasising that the Palestinian and Israeli civilian populations must be protected,"
You can read the full document here
By leaving this out you give the reader the impression that the UN resolution was only about Israel, which it wasn't. Answer my question: why did you leave out the Palestinian side of the resolution?
So you call deadly rockets airborne reminders???
Then why is Human Rights Watch against it? Gaza: Stop Rocket Attacks Against Israel Civilians.
you forget to mention that there were economic sanctions against the Palestinian National Authority imposed by Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East and would be lifted if:
- Renunciation of violence,
- Recognition of Israel by the Hamas government (as the PLO had done), and
- Acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the Palestinian National Authority.
The Israeli military members were jailed, in Gaza Hamas would have killed them without trials.
See this : Human Rights Watch says Islamist group killed at least 32 in attacks on political rivals and suspected collaborators
and Amnesty International has accused Hamas militants in Gaza of kidnapping, killing and torturing fellow Palestinians they accuse of spying for Israel, the organization announced Tuesday. Info here.
Another Palestinian fable is that Hamas leaders complain Israel is causing poverty.
Then read this article and here
here a picture
alestinians shopping at the new al-Andulusia mall in Gaza City on August 16, 2011.Photo by: AP
Another story about who holds of the peace:
Israeli-Palestinian soccer 'peace team' to face Barcelona's stars Exhibition match, to be attended by Shimon Peres, also gets active support from movie actor Sean Connery. Article here
And what does the PA do?
"The Palestinian FA will form a committee to investigate the players who participated in the match ... everyone involved will be punished," senior FA official Jamal Zaqout told Reuters.
Well well well, once again you read the title but not the article.
I quote : "In their responses, Labor MPs noted their party’s ongoing support for Israel, but accused Bishop of “petty point scoring”.
Then answer my questions of my "so called failed arguments" !
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Bugger, he found it.
84RFK
Active member
Since I haven't monitored this thread I fail to see the connection between a shopping mall in Gaza and Arabs in the Israeli Army... :?
But as it seems like this thread is allready off topic I'd like to ask those of you who may have the proper knowledge about the subject one question.
Why is cement on the list of restricted substances that can't be shipped freely to Gaza?
To my knowledge cement can hardly be used for anything else than mixing concrete, a substance rarely found in rockets and IED's, and thus it wouldn't carry any strategic value except for the making of defensive fortifications...
But as it seems like this thread is allready off topic I'd like to ask those of you who may have the proper knowledge about the subject one question.
Why is cement on the list of restricted substances that can't be shipped freely to Gaza?
To my knowledge cement can hardly be used for anything else than mixing concrete, a substance rarely found in rockets and IED's, and thus it wouldn't carry any strategic value except for the making of defensive fortifications...
Arabs from the IDF shopping? No, just kidding. I think Gaza is off limits for IDF soldiers.
I'm in a fight from post2 in this thread. Didn't see the connection with jews in the German army either and I don't like that facts are intentionally twisted.
I posted this shopping thing to show that Gaza is not that big poor refugee camp that people want us to believe. If you can build such things (and also a Luxury 5 star hotel) why can't you take care for your poor people?
Very good question. Cement is allowed, it's Portland Cement that's not allowed and I think because it's waterproof so that it can be used to make waterproof concrete for the tunnels through which weapons are smuggled in.
senojekips
Active member
Oh don't worry he bought up some rubbish about luxury hotels in a similar post in another thread.
Prior to June 2010, the Israelis claimed that, as you say Cement could be used for fortifications and iron pipe for the making of rockets. With the type of warfare being used by Hamas and their supporters I don't see that fixed fortifications would be of any great use especially against Israels weaponry. The banning of pipe was questionable as well, as standard diameters of piping used in household plumbing would hardly be of any use for making rockets of any possible use.
Humanitarian organisations have claimed that these products were actually banned to prevent any chance of the civil population trying to repair infrastructure deliberately damaged by the Israelis, in an attempt to put pressure on Hamas. This constitutes illegal collective punishment of the civil population as defined by the ICJ.
Wikipedia said:
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Wouldn't it be better that they had used the materials to build a 3000m2 shopping mall to repair civilian infrastructure?
BTW why do you list banned or restricted goods prior to June 2010 when just beneath it is the current list? Is it because you don't like the new one? Look here.
senojekips
Active member
What the Gazans use the materials for, so long as it's not fortifications is none of Israel's nor your business. Anyway, why are you so concerned about the people of Gaza, you are the one who supports those undertaking an admitted plan of deliberate provocation, destruction and ethnic cleansing. The average Gazan probably can't afford to repair their own infrastructure so it's left to those who do have the money to do pretty much as they wish. Perhaps with you being such a "mover and shaker", you can tell large corporations what to do with their money, but I'd say that is not the case with the population of Gaza.
I was pointing out what Israel had banned before International pressure forced them to cave in on some of the more ridiculous items. You just need to stop trying to justify Israel's criminal behaviour,... your guilty conscience is showing very clearly.
I mean to say, banning, Musical Instruments? Clothing, cups, Crayons? Washing machines and severely limiting basic foodstuffs like lentils and pasta. It sounds almost exactly like the restrictions placed on the Jews in Germany, although I don't think that they were quite as bad.
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senojekips
Active member
It was a strategic decision,:sarc:... deliberately designed to reduce the living conditions of the Palestinians to less than that of animals.
AnnaLeland
New Member
grey shadow
Banned
The policy is to restrict service in the armed forces to citizens of Israel, Jews as well as Christians, Moslems, Druze and others, and to non-Israeli Jews and their non-Jewish children and grandchildren, so as to avoid placing at risk persons who do not have this connection to Israel.
Again you are distorting the facts by listing something that is not valid anymore. (seems to be a habit of yours)
You once supported the fact that the PO forbid Palestinians to work for Israelis (boycot the enemy?) but when Israel puts up a "blockade" against Hamas (Israeli enemy who's charter demands the destruction of Israel) you cry foul! Tell me, how many nations would allow goods to pass to their enemy?
But I have good news for you because the blockade does not seem to work:
These photos of Gaza are from the November 26, 2009 edition of the Hamas-controlled Gazan newspaper, Palestine Today. (before your so called international pressure!)
I can also publish foto's of the As-Sadaka, a 50m swimming pool in the Gaza strip (watershortage?). It was inaugurated in May 2010. Or luxury 5star Hotels, luxury dining places or what about the 4000 cars so far imported through Israel since last year.
How many poor Palestinian could they have helped with all that money?
her's another nice comment: "People need field experience and Palestine sounds cool and dangerous because it can be described as a war zone, but in reality it’s quite safe and has all the comforts that internationals want. Quality of life here is so much higher than somewhere like Afghanistan, but we don’t tell anyone so that we are not replaced or reassigned.”
Emily Williams, an American project manager at a medical NGO, in Why Your Streets Are Full of Foreigners, This Week in Palestine, May 7, 2011"