Another company has jumped into the "Assault Weapon" Market

5.56X45mm

5.56X45mm

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Ruger, America's largest civilian firearm company has jumped into the "Assault Weapon" market with a two stage gas piston AR-15. Ruger already has the Mini-14/Mini-30 line but this is a major step in the right direction.

Ruger is big in the Fudd world and this shows what the American people want. Combat style rifles. This is just as Earth shattering as Remington making AR-15s. It's another nail in the coffin of the anti-gun left that AR-15s and other rifles aren't for sport, self defense, or hunting.

Remember folks.... Bill Ruger (now Dead) said before the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban "no honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun…" and "I never meant for simple civilians to have my 20 and 30 round magazines…"

Well.... after he said that the gun buying public has turned their back on Bill Ruger. He's dead and his company is not just selling 20rd and 30rd magazines to civilians. They're making small compact carry pistols, 18rd capacity duty pistols, and now an AR-15.

The more companies that produce AR-15s, AK Series rifles, etc.... is another voice to fight the leftests in Congress and the White House. Looks like Ruger announced that they're throwing heir support behind the 2nd Amendment.

First it was S&W with their AR-15 rifle, then Remington, and now Ruger. I think that the Dems are going to have a harder fight this time.

The only industry partner that is somewhat still a Government lacky is Colt and they lost their last Government Contract so I believe that they're also going to have to realize that it's the civilian market that keeps them in business and not the Government.
 
I've got both the Mini 14 and Mini 30 and both are great weapons. Unfortunently a can't see a new AR in my future anytime soon. The DPMS and Rockriver will have to suffice for now.

As far as Colt. They are overpriced and under manufactured and for me require to much post purchase upgrading. I can spend less buying DPMS or others and get what I want.
 
03USMC said:
I've got both the Mini 14 and Mini 30 and both are great weapons.
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Arent some police forces in the US issued with Mini 14's?

I did have a Ruger Ranch Rifle Mini 14 in UK years ago (before they were banned), it was a great little rifle, but I didnt like taking it apart for cleaning...far too fiddley for my fat fingers. Apart from that I enjoyed using it.
 
BritinAfrica said:
Arent some police forces in the US issued with Mini 14's?

I did have a Ruger Ranch Rifle Mini 14 in UK years ago (before they were banned), it was a great little rifle, but I didnt like taking it apart for cleaning...far too fiddley for my fat fingers. Apart from that I enjoyed using it.
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Yes but the AR-15 is the number one rifle in Police Service. The Mini-14s are slowly being phased out by many PDs.


the_13th_redneck said:
Just under two grand as well... damn.... ME WANT!!
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This rifle is going to be well under 2K. Ruger has always stated a very high MSRP when in fact the Out the door price is far lower.

MSRP for their 4 inch GP100 .357 Magnum is $680.00. I paid $450.00 for it...

I predict that the street price is going to be around $1,500.




SHERMAN said:
why is everyone making these AR clones? what about some damned creativety?
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Because it's the number one selling center fire rifle in the USA. Also it sends a strong message to Congress and the Leftists that it's not some small little fringe company that makes and sell AR-15s and also that America's Largest Firearm Company is listening to the public and producing what they want.
 
I'm mixed on the creativity vs. flattery angle. i guess we have firms doing both ... so

I'm a huge Ruger fun ... but not a huge AR-15 fan so this rifle isn't making me too hot. I'm also not a big fan of 5.56mm. :army:

Guys, I've been a member of the US NRA for decades ... but just because a lot of firms make these weapons doesn't mean they can't all be banned tomorrow [mock]"Praise be to our savior Obama!"[/mock]

Anyone have any experience with the SA-58 line of rifles?

http://www.dsarms.com/SA58-FAL-Rifles/departments/8
 
I like the 5.56mm caliber because the terrain I was supposed to operate from was just mountain after mountain after mountain. No other transport than my own legs. There's quite a few stuff I have to bring along, lighter ammunition will certainly help. Yeah I've read reports of the 5.56mm not doing its thing now and then but I'd rather have to deal with pumping two bullets into the occasional dude than running out of ammo early.

There's a reason why this sort of weapons platform and its caliber are popular.
 
I understand Redneck, and for a military with massive logistical issues to deal with, the 5.56mm makes a lot of sense. But I'm a good shot and tend to hit what I aim at ... with a single bullet. I'd just as soon that be a 7.62mm projectile weight nearly 3 times more.

I also play paintball ... and while the 'guns' have gotten more sophisticated and lighter over the years, I'm still toting a 1997 WGP Autococker with next to no milling done to it. Fully loaded with paintballs and a compressed air tank, it's over 12 pounds and though I'm not as young as I used to be, I don't mind the weight ... even at the end of a long day.

So, if I can do this for a game, I figure I could (and would) do this for a real fight.

I already have a Springfield Armory M1A-A1 which is similar ... but I never got the reliability from it so I was hoping to hear from someone who's bought one (a number?) of the oh-so-cool SA-58s.

Problem is, with Obama in office, there's been a tremendous run on guns and ammo in this country. While I'm not buying new right now, there'll hopefully be a lot of bargains a year or two down the road. ;)
 
You don't have to carry a soldier's kit for paintball though, Bror. That weight saving with 5.56 is pretty significant. Still, I like the 6.5 Grendel; you can hit a man-sized target at 800 yards with a mid-length carbine in that caliber, very flat trajectory.

I'd say 7.62x51mm is almost always a better choice than 5.56 for armed civilians, as even if the SHTF we don't have to carry tons of junk everywhere, we don't have to burn through ammo with suppressing fire, and semi-auto is the only option in some states so recoil is not as much of a factor unless you're tiny. Overpenetration isn't much of a problem with the right type of bullet.

I've never fired a SA58 myself, but I have handled one to get a feel for the balance, and I read a lot of good things about them last time I was shopping for a carbine. Surprisingly, I found the M1A with its traditional rifle stock more comfortable, but that's probably just because I'm used to the SKS.

Obama's done more for firearms sales than anyone else I know of. The price of a WASR at the local gun shop has literally doubled since he's been in.
 
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Bror Jace, it's different when you're engaging a trained target at around 200m who is doing his best not to die and doing his best to kill you.
I played paintball a lot in high school and a bit in college actually I still have my Tippmann A5 I got in college though I haven't used it in years. 12 pounds is really nothing. 12 pounds would be about the weight of the rifle, a bit of ammo and a light flak jacket without any plates in them. That's not even a load. That's walking out pretty empty.
Also remember that you're engaging the enemy not after a warm shower and a hot breakfast watching the TV, then loading your stuff onto your car and then driving out before walking a whole of 500m to the paintball site, you're carrying this stuff for hundreds of kilometers over terrain that will not allow for vehicles, carrying everything that you and your unit will need to survive and fight the enemy.
Yeah I've paintballed and although I haven't gone to war, I have hauled a lot of crap over a lot of mountains (guns, ammo, other equipment...). It is completely different.
The AR-15 platform is good because it's a good weapon with a realistic caliber and the platform is versitile.
Major Liability said it pretty well. The 7.62mm is a good choice for civilians because you won't have a SAW to deal with and won't expect to haul your house along with you and it's got a very flat trajectory which makes for aiming easier than the 5.56mm round. On that note, also the ideal one for vehicle mounted weapons as well.
Just saying... there's a reason why people keep turning to the AR.
As for the Grendel, I'd want to fire it before I can judge it.
 
I'd look at the AR-10s. The SCAR 17 should also be out by the time you intend to buy as well. There is no such thing as too many options.
 
The SCAR is out.... in the SCAR Light format. 16 inch barrel chambered in the 5.56x45. I do believe that FNH will release a semi-auto civilian variant soon but they're trying to simply produce as much of their PS90s, SLPs, FNPs, and FN2000s, and the Five Sevens along with the new SCAR.

I spoke to Armalite and DPMS back in late January during the '09 SHOT Show. Armalite is so back logged on orders right now that they paused production on the AR-10 rifles because the hotter seller is the 5.56x45mm M-15. They simply need the space on the production line to produce more M15s. DPMS is going a different route since they're now under the monster family of Cerberus Capital Management. DPMS, Bushmaster, Remington, Marlin, H&R, and New England Firearms are all owned by Cerberus. So DPMS is still pumping out their LR-308s and their 5.56x45mm A-15s aliong iwth Bushmaster. Both Busmaster and Remington make the guns for Remington. The 5.56 Remington R-15 is a Bushmaster XM-15ES2 Predator series rifle and the .308 R-25s are DPMS LR-308s.
 
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"Bror Jace, it's different when you're engaging a trained target at around 200m who is doing his best not to die and doing his best to kill you ... 12 pounds would be about the weight of the rifle, a bit of ammo and a light flak jacket without any plates in them. That's not even a load. That's walking out pretty empty. Also remember that you're engaging the enemy not after a warm shower and a hot breakfast watching the TV, then loading your stuff onto your car and then driving out before walking a whole of 500m to the paintball site, you're carrying this stuff for hundreds of kilometers over terrain ..."

I hear you redneck. I was a Boy Scout and we would hike for a full day into the Adirondacks carrying everything we needed for a long weekend then hike back out. That was food, tents and sleeping gear. We did this once per month regardless of weather ... that's something to consider in the northern regions of New York State. Some trips were not just in boots, but on skis and for a couple we used snow shoes.

And I did this at the ripe old age of 13. Nowadays that would probably qualify as "child abuse."

So, while I haven't done all these things together, especially not for weeks or months at a time, I have gotten a taste of what it's like to rough it. Yes, carrying a heavier weapon firing heavier ammo during these times is definitely a disadvantage.

That's why I (reluctantly) understand why most armed forces have standardized on 'intermediate' calibers. But for my (occasional) use, I'd opt for something a bit bigger and heavier.
 
While I am not unhappy that Ruger has joined the AR-15 club, I would have hoped that they might take the more risky route and design a new semi-auto rifle of their own. The Mini-14 is OK (I qualify with it every year for the state corrections agency that employs me) but they ought to consider something more revolutionary.
 
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