Another Abu Ghraib? - Page 10




 
--
Boots
 
March 18th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.
March 18th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.
In guantanamo the violation of human rights are constant:

Interrogation techniques authorized for use in Guantánamo have included stress positions, isolation, hooding, sensory deprivation, and the use of dogs. Among the abuses reported by FBI agents are the cruel and prolonged use of shackling, and the use of loud music and strobe lights. They have also reported witnessing the use of dogs to intimidate detainees in Guantánamo. Yet military officials, including those involved in earlier investigations, have previously given assurances that no dogs have been used in this way in the naval base. A full independent commission of inquiry, as called for by Amnesty International since last May, is clearly required. If this is not violation of human rights then i do not know what it is, may be you should explain me, I think that i must live in another world......


http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAMR510032005
March 18th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
I think it is pretty clear that you do live in a different world.

I have already told you that I do not consider the techniques you call "torture" as either unwarranted or abuses of human rights. And again, you cannot go from "alleged" violations to "violations are constant," it just don't work that way.
--
Boots
March 18th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.
In guantanamo the violation of human rights are constant:

Interrogation techniques authorized for use in Guantánamo have included stress positions, isolation, hooding, sensory deprivation, and the use of dogs. Among the abuses reported by FBI agents are the cruel and prolonged use of shackling, and the use of loud music and strobe lights. They have also reported witnessing the use of dogs to intimidate detainees in Guantánamo. Yet military officials, including those involved in earlier investigations, have previously given assurances that no dogs have been used in this way in the naval base. A full independent commission of inquiry, as called for by Amnesty International since last May, is clearly required. If this is not violation of human rights then i do not know what it is, may be you should explain me, I think that i must live in another world......


http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAMR510032005
Amenesty International considers most forms of incarceration and interrogation above "Go to bed without milk and cookies." a human rights violation. The FBI Agents you refer to as plural is one Agent read the report again. And just as an aside the FBI agrees with very little they do not control. The FBI wants control of Gitmo even though it is outside CONUS and there for outside the jurisdication of COINTELPRO.
Hooding, Sensory deprivation, Intimadation, stress and sensory overload are accepted methods of interrogation. They are not torture, they are used in varying degrees to extract intel.

Yes you must live in a different world. A world were you safely ensconced in the safe haven of higher education. Where bad guys stop being bad guys because they get a hug and kind word. Where terrorists change their ways and go forth to murder no more because the rest of the world says "we love and understand you" . Must be lovely in that world. Because in the real world Hard men must do hard things to keep their nations safe.
March 18th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.
In guantanamo the violation of human rights are constant:

Interrogation techniques authorized for use in Guantánamo have included stress positions, isolation, hooding, sensory deprivation, and the use of dogs. Among the abuses reported by FBI agents are the cruel and prolonged use of shackling, and the use of loud music and strobe lights. They have also reported witnessing the use of dogs to intimidate detainees in Guantánamo. Yet military officials, including those involved in earlier investigations, have previously given assurances that no dogs have been used in this way in the naval base. A full independent commission of inquiry, as called for by Amnesty International since last May, is clearly required. If this is not violation of human rights then i do not know what it is, may be you should explain me, I think that i must live in another world......


http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAMR510032005
Amenesty International considers most forms of incarceration and interrogation above "Go to bed without milk and cookies." a human rights violation. The FBI Agents you refer to as plural is one Agent read the report again. And just as an aside the FBI agrees with very little they do not control. The FBI wants control of Gitmo even though it is outside CONUS and there for outside the jurisdication of COINTELPRO.
Hooding, Sensory deprivation, Intimadation, stress and sensory overload are accepted methods of interrogation. They are not torture, they are used in varying degrees to extract intel.

Yes you must live in a different world. A world were you safely ensconced in the safe haven of higher education. Where bad guys stop being bad guys because they get a hug and kind word. Where terrorists change their ways and go forth to murder no more because the rest of the world says "we love and understand you" . Must be lovely in that world. Because in the real world Hard men must do hard things to keep their nations safe.
This is torture for every country that signed United Nations Convention Against Torture:

Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

I did not see any mention to the cookies, but I am sure that if you read this link you will find it: http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Torture
March 18th, 2005  
03USMC
 
 
Nice. In all of your reading of legal issues contained there in did you miss the part that notes. Article 5 of the GCIV? Is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected or engaged of activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present convention as would if excercised in favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such state.

So I submit to you Counselor that the detainees are not subject to the GCIII nor GCIV. In light of the evidence you have presented yet failed to research completely.
March 18th, 2005  
Redneck
 
 
Ouch.
March 18th, 2005  
chewie_nz
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Nice. In all of your reading of legal issues contained there in did you miss the part that notes. Article 5 of the GCIV? Is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected or engaged of activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present convention as would if excercised in favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such state.

So I submit to you Counselor that the detainees are not subject to the GCIII nor GCIV. In light of the evidence you have presented yet failed to research completely.
The United States has ratified the UN's Convention Against Torture and the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions. Although the Bush Administration has argued that prisoners taken in Afghanistan did not qualify as prisoners of war under international law, Alberto R. Gonzales, counsel to the President, has stated: "Both the United States and Iraq are parties to the Geneva Conventions. The United States recognizes that these treaties are binding in the war for the liberation of Iraq." ("The Rule of Law and the Rules of War", New York Times (op-ed piece), May 15, 2004).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay

The U.S. classifies the prisoners held at Camp Delta and Camp Echo as illegal enemy combatants, but has not held the Article 5 tribunals that would be required by international law for it to do so. This would grant them the rights of the Fourth Geneva Convention (GCIV), as opposed to the more common Third Geneva Convention (GCIII) which deals exclusively with prisoners of war. On November 9, 2004 US District Court Judge James Robertson ruled that the Bush Administration had overstepped its authority to try such prisoners as enemy combatants in a military tribunal and denying them access to the evidence used against them.

[/b]
March 18th, 2005  
Marksman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Quote:
Originally Posted by staurofilakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redneck
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
I also fail to see any concrete evidence of the "Systematic Violations of Human Rights" you are alledging. I see isolated incidents of violations that are being dealt with.
In guantanamo the violation of human rights are constant:

Interrogation techniques authorized for use in Guantánamo have included stress positions, isolation, hooding, sensory deprivation, and the use of dogs. Among the abuses reported by FBI agents are the cruel and prolonged use of shackling, and the use of loud music and strobe lights. They have also reported witnessing the use of dogs to intimidate detainees in Guantánamo. Yet military officials, including those involved in earlier investigations, have previously given assurances that no dogs have been used in this way in the naval base. A full independent commission of inquiry, as called for by Amnesty International since last May, is clearly required. If this is not violation of human rights then i do not know what it is, may be you should explain me, I think that i must live in another world......


http://news.amnesty.org/index/ENGAMR510032005
Amenesty International considers most forms of incarceration and interrogation above "Go to bed without milk and cookies." a human rights violation. The FBI Agents you refer to as plural is one Agent read the report again. And just as an aside the FBI agrees with very little they do not control. The FBI wants control of Gitmo even though it is outside CONUS and there for outside the jurisdication of COINTELPRO.
Hooding, Sensory deprivation, Intimadation, stress and sensory overload are accepted methods of interrogation. They are not torture, they are used in varying degrees to extract intel.

Yes you must live in a different world. A world were you safely ensconced in the safe haven of higher education. Where bad guys stop being bad guys because they get a hug and kind word. Where terrorists change their ways and go forth to murder no more because the rest of the world says "we love and understand you" . Must be lovely in that world. Because in the real world Hard men must do hard things to keep their nations safe.
This is torture for every country that signed United Nations Convention Against Torture:

Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

I did not see any mention to the cookies, but I am sure that if you read this link you will find it: http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Torture
ohh whyeven bother,US controls UN ,which means that those rules that aply for us dont aply for US................trust me dont even bother with standing up for ur rights.........as things are going,we wont have any very soon
March 18th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC
Nice. In all of your reading of legal issues contained there in did you miss the part that notes. Article 5 of the GCIV? Is satisfied that an individual protected person is definitely suspected or engaged of activities hostile to the security of the State, such individual shall not be entitled to claim such rights and privileges under the present convention as would if excercised in favour of such individual person, be prejudicial to the security of such state.

So I submit to you Counselor that the detainees are not subject to the GCIII nor GCIV. In light of the evidence you have presented yet failed to research completely.
As I see you do not know the difference betewen Geneve Convention and
UN Convention Agains Torture. The Geneve Convention is for war prisoners and the UN for all Humans on earth, not just Americans.

Article 1
For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.

Article 2
Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.

Is this familiar to you????????????????