An American

Ted, those who live in Dutch, erm, glass houses, should not be the first to cast stones. Shall we delve into Dutch dirty digits my esteemed colleague? Others on this board may not be as versed in them as I but I am more than willing to sling mud with you on this one mate. NO country is innocent... Indonesia, Irian Jaya, Formosa, India, the dutch banking system, Africa and then lets look at Sebrenica. I think you were a bit too quick on the trigger Ted but out of respect I will give you a chance to pause and reflect. Not a threat, just holding up the mirror.
 
Hahahahaha all you said is very true! We probably invented the slavery business and were one of the last to abolish it, we have been pirates of the oceans and made a fortune doing it. We have made even more in the East Indies selling opium to the people there, that is how Holland budgetted Indonesia. Our army/ navy helped out while government officials made millions, 8 million to the colony per annum the rest to the crown. That is why you'll never hear me say: I am so darned proud of my great neation and I'll never apologize for what we have done.... Actually, I have in the past and will in the future... My mirror hangs firmly in my sleeping room and I look into it each morning and I am not always very pleased at what I see!
 
You are correct ... there are many people who could substitute their home country, and it would reflect how many of their countrymen feel.
 
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Chief Bones said:
IF YOU ARE AN AMERICAN AND HATE AMERICA - THEN PACK YOUR BAGS AND LEAVE.
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Yeah, i never quite got that... i mean i am extremely patriotic, even if i criticise certain things in my country, and accept its faults, i still have nothing but love and pride for it. I always respect patriotism in a person, for whichever country it might be.

That said, maybe people who have had very bad lives in their countries of origin might not have a love for it and might wanna get out. But surely it would be absurd for that to happen in a highly developed nation like the US. If you could not eke out a respectable life for yourself in America, you either deserve the life you have (loser!) or are just cursed by the heavans- no matter where you go, things aren't gonna get better!

So whenever i come across Americans in college in Boston who are like "we dont like amreica because of blah...blah...blah..." I just see a spoilt little wannabe pseudo-intellectual type who really doesnt know what hardship/poverty etc really is. I would respect their opinions if i didnt know that the fools wouldn't last half a year in some other country, and would complain and act like s*its wherever they were.

Disliking some or even many aspects of your country is ok, being able to admit to faults and wrongdoings is courageous, but disliking your country is like some sort of betrayal to everything that made you what you are, gave you everything you have....and that is really really disgusting!
 
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fingolfin361 said:
Disliking some or even many aspects of your country is ok, being able to admit to faults and wrongdoings is courageous, but disliking your country is like some sort of betrayal to everything that made you what you are, gave you everything you have....and that is really really disgusting!
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And this is something I don´t get... The things that made me isn´t my nation of birth and the things I own weren´t given to me by the state. I live a nation that sees hypocrisy as the standard and where greed and desinterest in others are deemed as national moral standard.
Some times it is fun being a Dutchman and on more then one occasion I just spoke English so that I wouldn´t be associated with these Neaderthals. But the problem of migrating is that I need all kinds of paper work, visa´s and permits... which my country doesn´t give me easily.

In short: in times of dire need I´d do whatever it takes to help out. In time of affluence my country forgets me and I her.... You might call it part time pattriotism.
 
Ted
You do NOT ever have to apologise for the shortcomings that you sometimes see in your country. I love America and can NOT think of another country where I would want to live ... but ... like you, I can see some of the problems that have become a part of the United States and reflect on what it means to be an American. Do I apologise for these shortcomings ... NOT ON YOUR TINTYPE ... the United States is my home. It's people ... it's greatness AND it's shortcomings are my bequest to my children, my grand-children and my great-grand-children.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I AM AN AMERICAN ... I AM PROUD OF MY COUNTRY ...
ANY PERSON WHO ATTACKS MY COUNTRY WILL HAVE TO GO THROUGH ME ...
IF YOU ARE AN AMERICAN AND HATE AMERICA - THEN PACK YOUR BAGS AND LEAVE.
I WILL NEVER BACK DOWN OR APOLOGISE FOR BEING AN AMERICAN.
However, if you are foreign born, and are seeking a better life -
I will be the first one to extend a hand in welcome.
 
It is just that so many things have been done in the name of Orange I do feel like apologizing for. We have conquered nations erradicated cultures and much much worse. I felt uncomfortable when I was in Indonesia because of what "we" have done... I love my country but I do feel the need to reflect on our history and that sometimes means a bit of humility towards others... But that is my opinion of course.
 
Ted said:
It is just that so many things have been done in the name of Orange I do feel like apologizing for. We have conquered nations erradicated cultures and much much worse. I felt uncomfortable when I was in Indonesia because of what "we" have done... I love my country but I do feel the need to reflect on our history and that sometimes means a bit of humility towards others... But that is my opinion of course.
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The OTHER side of the picture is the culture and the freedoms that were a hallmark of European culture that were inculcated into the countries that you are showing humility towards. Countries are NOT ALL BAD just as they are NOT ALL GOOD.

Celebrate the good that was accomplished and remember the bad so that it will NOT be repeated. One voice in the silence, can be very very loud.
 
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