American Civil war

:horsie:This thread is about the American civil war north or south

Interesting, I call the American civil war the first "modern industrialized" war, some use that term for the first world war.

I haven't read much about the ACW, I have watched some documentaries about it, so I am looking forward to learn much more about this war.
 
It probably was the beginning of industrial warfare and also the beginning of total war, where the objective became the total destruction of the enemy state, not just defeat of it's forces. The American South was devastated to a greater extent than Germany after WWII. and it took generations for it to recover. The South that had been the richest area of the U.S. prior to the war became the poorest. It's economy and infrastructure were totally destroyed.
It was the beginning of trench warfare at Vicksburg and Petersburg, when it was apparent that firepower and defensive works could be made so strong they couldn't be taken by frontal infantry assault.
It was a preview of events seen later in the Russo-Japanese War and on the Western Front in WWI.
 
I watched a TV series about the civil war by Ken Burns (he has produced other TV series as well) I knew the weakness of relying on TV documentaries

Something that surprised me about the war was the size of it. As a European, I had the impression the war was mostly fought in the eastern part of the US, east of Mississippi, but there were clashes even further west.
 
It probably was the beginning of industrial warfare and also the beginning of total war, where the objective became the total destruction of the enemy state, not just defeat of it's forces. The American South was devastated to a greater extent than Germany after WWII. and it took generations for it to recover. The South that had been the richest area of the U.S. prior to the war became the poorest. It's economy and infrastructure were totally destroyed.
It was the beginning of trench warfare at Vicksburg and Petersburg, when it was apparent that firepower and defensive works could be made so strong they couldn't be taken by frontal infantry assault.
It was a preview of events seen later in the Russo-Japanese War and on the Western Front in WWI.

I have heard said that the American Civil War was the first modern war in history, a taste of things to come.
 
The American Civil War was perhaps the first war of attrition in the modern age. In previous wars, such as the Napoleonic Wars, the fate of a nation could be decided in an afternoons battle. By 1860, this was no longer possible. It was also an early, perhaps the earliest, example of the impact that railroads were to have.
In the South, there were numerous small railroads that ran out into the rural areas to collect agricultural produce and bring it to the cities for use or trans-shipment. This meant that the Confederacy could fight on interior lines, shifting reinforcements wherever needed.
At least one Confederate General, Joe Johnston urged that the south adopt a defensive strategy, forcing Union forces to attack into unfavorable terrain and meeting these attacks by shifting forces.
In the short term that might have worked and possibly have ended the war on terms favorable to the south, but Confederate President Jefferson Davis would never listen to Johnston, who he personally disliked.
 
Something that surprised me about the war was the size of it. As a European, I had the impression the war was mostly fought in the eastern part of the US, east of Mississippi, but there were clashes even further west.
At the time the eastern seaboard was the east and the western theatre was east of the Mississippi. West of the River was considered to be the "far west" and was a minor area.

It probably was the beginning of industrial warfare and also the beginning of total war, where the objective became the total destruction of the enemy state, not just defeat of it's forces. The American South was devastated to a greater extent than Germany after WWII. and it took generations for it to recover. The South that had been the richest area of the U.S. prior to the war became the poorest. It's economy and infrastructure were totally destroyed.
It was the beginning of trench warfare at Vicksburg and Petersburg, when it was apparent that firepower and defensive works could be made so strong they couldn't be taken by frontal infantry assault.
It was a preview of events seen later in the Russo-Japanese War and on the Western Front in WWI.
European observers in 1864-65 were shocked by the devastation on battlefields. A proposal to drop poison gas bombs into Ft. Pickens from balloons during the stand off at Pensacola were found after the War in Richmond.

The American Civil War was perhaps the first war of attrition in the modern age. In previous wars, such as the Napoleonic Wars, the fate of a nation could be decided in an afternoons battle. By 1860, this was no longer possible. It was also an early, perhaps the earliest, example of the impact that railroads were to have.
In the South, there were numerous small railroads that ran out into the rural areas to collect agricultural produce and bring it to the cities for use or trans-shipment. This meant that the Confederacy could fight on interior lines, shifting reinforcements wherever needed.
At least one Confederate General, Joe Johnston urged that the south adopt a defensive strategy, forcing Union forces to attack into unfavorable terrain and meeting these attacks by shifting forces.
In the short term that might have worked and possibly have ended the war on terms favorable to the south, but Confederate President Jefferson Davis would never listen to Johnston, who he personally disliked.
The war was lost for a big part by the inability to defend the western theatre by the Army of Tennessee. Jeff Davis's personal friendship with Gen. Bragg and not dismissing him in time was a big factor in losing.
 
Sherman's offensive through the south really devastated the country.

I also think the telegraph had a major importance during the war, and probably the first time the telegraph was used strategically in a war.
 
It probably was the beginning of industrial warfare and also the beginning of total war, where the objective became the total destruction of the enemy state, not just defeat of it's forces. The American South was devastated to a greater extent than Germany after WWII. and it took generations for it to recover. The South that had been the richest area of the U.S. prior to the war became the poorest. It's economy and infrastructure were totally destroyed.
It was the beginning of trench warfare at Vicksburg and Petersburg, when it was apparent that firepower and defensive works could be made so strong they couldn't be taken by frontal infantry assault.
It was a preview of events seen later in the Russo-Japanese War and on the Western Front in WWI.

Although I'm sure the south was devastated to quite a degree I find it hard to believe that it was as devastated as post WW2 Germany. ~ 5.3 million military dead, > 2 million civilian dead, > 10 million refugees, > 0.3 million Germans executed by the Nazi's. This is not included the millions of sick and injured. It has been said that no country in the history of warfare held out so long against such odds as WW2 Germany.
 
As was the railways.

Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split
 
Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.
 
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.

The Battle of Fleurus, on 26 June 1794 was the first use of an observation balloon and it was also shot at so I suspect that it also qualifies as the first use of AA fire.
 
Yes,

What else was new about this war? Didn't the first machine gun show up during the war? The artillery had a huge development as well. something that cannot be ignored is the improvement of the health care (medics) and also a huge program to identify the fallen after the war.

I find it amazing how the United States survived the civil war, many other other countries with a similar experience have not. There are different kinds of civil wars and those with a similar experience as the American one have not survived it without a split

Not quite, the first machine gun, the Maxim gun invented by Hiram Maxim wasnt invented until 1884.

Weapons included J.D. Mill's Coffee Mill Gun. Like the Gatling Gun, the cartridges of Mill's invention were fed by a hand crank, and this is why some people believe that President Lincoln called it "The Coffee Grinder Gun". Other infantry support weapons included the .58 caliber Agar gun with a hopper on top and steel guard, and the Billinghurst Requa Battery which had eight banks of cartridge chambers that were rotated into alignment behind the row of 25 barrels.

Chief of Ordnance, General James Wolfe Ripley was against issuing repeating rifles and rapid-fire weapons to the Union army as he believed it would waste ammunition. Nevertheless, several generals, including General Benjamin Butler and General Winfield Scott Hancock, purchased Gatling Guns.

The Confederate used the hand-cranked single barrel Williams Gun and the Vandenburgh volley gun, a volley gun similar to the French Mitrailleuse.

As an aside, when the first automatic gun was issued to the British Army, senior officers called it ""Damn unsporting!"":roll:
 
Not quite, the first machine gun, the Maxim gun invented by Hiram Maxim wasnt invented until 1884.

Weapons included J.D. Mill's Coffee Mill Gun. Like the Gatling Gun, the cartridges of Mill's invention were fed by a hand crank, and this is why some people believe that President Lincoln called it "The Coffee Grinder Gun". Other infantry support weapons included the .58 caliber Agar gun with a hopper on top and steel guard, and the Billinghurst Requa Battery which had eight banks of cartridge chambers that were rotated into alignment behind the row of 25 barrels.

Chief of Ordnance, General James Wolfe Ripley was against issuing repeating rifles and rapid-fire weapons to the Union army as he believed it would waste ammunition. Nevertheless, several generals, including General Benjamin Butler and General Winfield Scott Hancock, purchased Gatling Guns.

The Confederate used the hand-cranked single barrel Williams Gun and the Vandenburgh volley gun, a volley gun similar to the French Mitrailleuse.

As an aside, when the first automatic gun was issued to the British Army, senior officers called it ""Damn unsporting!"":roll:
The Maxim was the 1st fully automatic machine gun. The Williams Gun has been called by some as the 1st automatic cannon, but the crank only opened & closed the breach, so not really where it just speeded up reloading of non-fixed rounds.
Considering the effort involved in moving ammo by wagon from the nearest railroad to the army's location in the field, I imagine it would have been quite a burden if they had all been equipped with Sharps or the Henry.
 
1st combat between Ironclads (USS Monitor vs CSS Virginia), 1st kill by a submarine (CS Army operated H L Hunley vs USS Housatonic), Confederates-1st use of Armored Trains. Possibly 1st sinkings by sea mines, land mines also used, not sure if 1st use. Artillery not much development. Members of a CS Cavalry patrol was 1st killed by a machine gun, by the generally ineffective "Coffee Mill". No evidence the Gatling Gun was actually used in combat. Observation balloons were used, possibly 1st time & one was launched from a barge, so 1st use of an "aircraft carrier". Attempts to down US balloons was 1st anti-aircraft artillery fire.
The War was about a split, it was crushed by force, so if the South couldn't leave before, it certainly couldn't after.

Damn! I should have remembered USS Monitor when it was designed by a Swede. Isn't the Henley at a museum in New Jersey?
 
Damn! I should have remembered USS Monitor when it was designed by a Swede. Isn't the Henley at a museum in New Jersey?
Hunley is in restoration at Charleston, S.C. where it sank. Believe USS Cairo was 1st to be sunk by electronic detonated mine
 
With regard to treatment of the wounded and sick, the Civil War introduced the Letterman Plan, a scheme for the evacuation of soldiers to the appropriate level of treatment as quickly as possible. Previously, the fighting units were responsible for locating their wounded and removing them to the dressing station.
In the Letterman Plan, each echelon evacuates the next lower echelon. In other words, somebody comes for the next treatment level up the line, picks up and takes the wounded and sick to a treatment facility. A patient is moved only to the level of treatment appropriate to the condition. the idea being to keep as many fighters in the line or close to the line as possible and when a man is treated, if he is able, he is returned to unit.
A rather delicate aspect of this treatment plan is triage. When wounded are received at an aid post for example, the least injured are treated first. This is to get a fighter back in the line quickly. That means that the severely wounded or moribund patient is last in line. If it's clear that a soldier is so severely wounded that he will not survive, he is placed aside, shot up with morphine and nature takes it's course.
The pal is named for Dr. Jonathon Letterman, Chief Surgeon of the Army of the Potomac. Another officer who helped with this scheme was Dr Trippler. Famous U.s. Army hospitals are named for these men. This plan is still used today, although with helicopters to evacuate wounded it goes much faster than with horse drawn wagons.
It might not seem revolutionary, but in comparison to how wounded were treated in previous wars, it was pure genius.
 
With regard to treatment of the wounded and sick, the Civil War introduced the Letterman Plan, a scheme for the evacuation of soldiers to the appropriate level of treatment as quickly as possible. Previously, the fighting units were responsible for locating their wounded and removing them to the dressing station.
In the Letterman Plan, each echelon evacuates the next lower echelon. In other words, somebody comes for the next treatment level up the line, picks up and takes the wounded and sick to a treatment facility. A patient is moved only to the level of treatment appropriate to the condition. the idea being to keep as many fighters in the line or close to the line as possible and when a man is treated, if he is able, he is returned to unit.
A rather delicate aspect of this treatment plan is triage. When wounded are received at an aid post for example, the least injured are treated first. This is to get a fighter back in the line quickly. That means that the severely wounded or moribund patient is last in line. If it's clear that a soldier is so severely wounded that he will not survive, he is placed aside, shot up with morphine and nature takes it's course.
The pal is named for Dr. Jonathon Letterman, Chief Surgeon of the Army of the Potomac. Another officer who helped with this scheme was Dr Trippler. Famous U.s. Army hospitals are named for these men. This plan is still used today, although with helicopters to evacuate wounded it goes much faster than with horse drawn wagons.
It might not seem revolutionary, but in comparison to how wounded were treated in previous wars, it was pure genius.
When was this supposedly put in effect? As far as I have seen through the War soldiers were on their own, for the most part, on getting to an aid station. If they were lucky a friend would drop out of the line to help the wounded man, though this was frowned upon by the Officers. At the regimental level the drummers would be detailed as stretcher bearers, but they were only a handful in a thousand man regiment.
In the South surgical thread quickly ran out due to the Blockade. Someone realized that horse hair from the tail and mane were long enough to be usefull. They boiled it to make it more pliable and they later noticed a reduction in infections of the wounds, though they had no idea that boiling the hair was sterilizing it.
 
George: You are correct. Early in the war, the wounded were not well cared for. Letterman first introduced his reforms in the Army of the Potomac in about early 1863. later, he became head of the Union Army medical department and imposed this method throughout the Union forces.
However, a major issue was a shortage of qualified physicians. Most "surgeons" were men who had simply apprenticed themselves to another cutter. There were few real medical school graduates. In addition, germ theory wasn't accepted in the U.S. at that time, although it was known in some places in Europe that disease and infection were caused and spread by invisible microbes.
 
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