Is America a secular soceity?




 
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Boots
 
December 4th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 

Topic: Is America a secular soceity?


Plz ignore my little info since I am not so familiar with every thing going on in the world!

But my question is a simple one

Is the USA a secular society?
December 4th, 2005  
Ted
 
 
Wow, guys..... the new forum lookes slick! (I just took the chance of saying that in my first new post on this forum

Anyway, back to your question Phoenix. I my opinion the USA is pretty far from being a secular state. It isn't that you have priests on Capitol Hill making the rules. But try and note how many times you hear: "God bless..." , "so help me God", "as God is my witness", "the Lord.... " and so forth. On so many occasions public debates get pulled into biblical sphere's and look at the influence the Christian lobby has. Even the new president says His name in his oath for office.

In short, I say the the US is definately not secular.
December 4th, 2005  
phoenix80
 
 
You are speaking like that doesnt happen in your own country where a priest or a religious figure does official ceremonies for your king or queen!

IMO, The US is a secular state where church is not forced upon the citizens of the country!

And remember that America's founding fathers fled Europe from religious suppression and they went there for religious freedom.

Any how, IMO, The US is a secular state (may not be a secular society) but in terms of govt it is a secular one!

good source for books on the issue
http://www.wallbuilders.com/
--
Boots
December 4th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix80

And remember that America's founding fathers fled Europe from religious suppression and they went there for religious freedom.
Ahhh, the myth dies hard does it not. Only a very small percentage of immigrants to the American continent were seeking religious freedom but I shall digress as there is no point in preaching to a closed mind.

Of course the US is a secular society. All societies which lack a religious police force (KSA) and their laws are based not on religious principle but rather liberal thought are secular. Your question seemed more like a chance to bait than to debate Pho.
December 4th, 2005  
Ted
 
 
Oh please..... I don't know a western society where the Bible has such an impact as in the US. Oh sure we have priest performing rituals and ceremonies. But comparing Bush's oath on the bible and and a priest saying "in the power invested in me I call you man and wife" they differ! But I'll go along with Bulldog since I know that nothing that I say will alter your mind in the least. (But I reckon you think the same of me)

p.s. I watched a documentary of Tom Friedman called "Does Europe hate America". It was funny to hear so many Europeans talk about the US as being non-secular and his genuine surprise at this shared view. If you can, you should see it at one time. I
December 4th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
I just lost my post somewhere in the ether so I'll give it one more try.

America is not now nor has it ever been a secular society. American Government has become secular. Until about the 1950s, immigrants have brought their beliefs and values with them without interference. Early immigrants who worked hard enough to get themselves and their families to America frowned upon those who refused assimilate and earn a living. Religion takes a back seat to supporting your family for a while but is never forgotten. Even though America was and still is mostly Christian, every family was free to worship their own way without interference. This worked well until some minority groups were convinced by people in the legal field that they were being discriminated against by the majority. Legal groups subverted the Constitution by changing the intent of the founding fathers to suit their own interpretation. Rights were bestowed and taken until assimilation was no longer necessary. America became divided into many small groups who constantly fought against each other instead of the united nation it once was.

As a result of bad Government policy and supposed advocate groups such as the ACLU, welfare programs became bloated with 4th and 5th generations of dependants. When hope for a better life is quashed, religion becomes less important and politicians are more important to their way of life. After the will to fight for religious rights is lost by the people, then the right to worship in their own way is lost.
December 4th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
When would you offer as the time frame for this change my esteemed duelist? From my own reading I would venture to guess you are speaking of the change in American society that happened in the 1960's??
December 4th, 2005  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
When would you offer as the time frame for this change my esteemed duelist? From my own reading I would venture to guess you are speaking of the change in American society that happened in the 1960's??
You might have read that I gave a pretty general time frame from the pilgrims to the 1950s but in no way am I saying there was an immediate change at that time. I think the knee of change in personal freedoms, especially religion, became sharper after the 1950s. Maybe it was the gradual control of institutions such as education by the Government becoming more aggressive.
December 4th, 2005  
Chief Bones
 
 

Topic: No cotton picken way!


America is not now nor has it ever been secular. Our forefathers came to this country to escape religious persecution and that has not changed all that much in modern times. I will grant you that the majority of the people coming to the United States are now coming for economic reasons, but a large portion of the arrivals ARE running from the religious fanatics in their own homelands.

What has changed is the fact that a significant block of committed individuals has decided to attack anything that smacks of a government supported or state sanctioned religion. That doesn't mean that the majority of the American people are in any way secular. As a matter of fact, there has been a resurgence of religious fervor over the last 10 years or so. If you follow news events rather closely, you will quickly realise that the number of people who are actively involved in these attacks on our religious freedoms are a very very small minority. Where their power comes in is the fact that their attacks are funded, organized and run with a military precision that has to be seen to be believed. This gives the illusion that America has become secular and nothing is further from the truth.

Within my own hometown, there are so many churches, synogogues, etc. that it is referred to as the town of churches. We even have one round church where they say the devil can not corner you no matter how hard he tries.

Within the last three years, eight new houses of worship have been built and not one single church has closed it's doors.
December 5th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
And there we have it, just as my grandpa told me when I was a kid - "If you ever want to lose a friend just strike up a conversation about money, politics or religion."

I think the point of contention is the definition of a secular vs religious society. I would argue the former is one which is not a theocracy or one whose laws are a direct derivation from a religious source. Whereas the latter is one in which the citizens are governed by a system of laws and a government which is under direct influence or guidance from a religious source.