Amazing video's and photos about the idf(israel defence force) - Page 3




 
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September 8th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Maybe so but I am not sure I need an arbiter to tell me what I want to see and what I don't and I am very opposed to driving people away just because I don't agree with their politics.

I also do not believe I am praising anyone by not posting in threads that do not need an input.
I wasn't doing it because of what you might wish to see, and I'm not, driving him away, I'm just showing him that his propaganda is a complete failure.

If that's your belief, you stick with it, meanwhile you can leave me to follow my beliefs in this matter. I've never been a fence sitter in matters that interest me.
September 8th, 2011  
Del Boy
 
Mmmm....mm.........mm..........

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...us_547252.html
September 9th, 2011  
84RFK
 
 
Give the IDF kid some slack here, it's not his fault that he's been feed "tailored news" and propaganda since birth, after all he has to believe it in order to comply with the demands and orders from his superiors.

Maybe some day he will realize that those palestinians he's watching on the news is the key to gain peace.
End the palestinian problem, and the other muslim states would no longer have a just reason for attacking Israel.
Any agression against Israel after the palestinians have a solution they can live with is bound to be pounded hard by the international community.

He will learn, but not if you guys chop off his head here first.
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September 9th, 2011  
grey shadow
 
Some Jews will never learn.

As a Jew, I understand oppression. I understand discrimination. I understand what it is like to live under false pretenses of freedom, in ghettos. I understand what it is like to be ignored, to have my religion hold me back from expressing my views. I understand what it is like to be a scapegoat, to be the illegitimate cause of strife.

I understand that I must never forget these memories, and that I must not allow them to repeat again, for if I do, I am the oppressor. I understand that I must take action against those who oppress and those who oppress must be held accountable for their actions. And I understand I must not be blinded by the oppressors, as they will try and try to divert me from ending their reign. And I understand that as a nation we have failed, failed miserably in achieving this task. We have stood up for the oppressed, in Tibet, in Darfur, and in Russia, yet here we say nothing. We support it. We legitimize it.

I see what road the Jewish nation has taken and it is blind support for the illegitimate nation, the nation founded on oppression of the natives, the nation founded on historic premises not in existence for 3000 years, the nation kept in existence through the use of force. Israel is the antithesis to the Jewish story, and I pray that we wake up before it destroys our nation.
September 9th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey shadow
Some Jews will never learn.

As a Jew, I understand oppression. I understand discrimination. I understand what it is like to live under false pretenses of freedom, in ghettos. I understand what it is like to be ignored, to have my religion hold me back from expressing my views. I understand what it is like to be a scapegoat, to be the illegitimate cause of strife. ---snip---
I must say that is a great pleasure to find a "Jew" who is truly worthy of that accolade, one who is made of the same stuff that has provided the world with some of it's most notable scholars, humanitarians and philanthropists.
September 10th, 2011  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by grey shadow
Some Jews will never learn.

As a Jew, I understand oppression. I understand discrimination. I understand what it is like to live under false pretenses of freedom, in ghettos. I understand what it is like to be ignored, to have my religion hold me back from expressing my views. I understand what it is like to be a scapegoat, to be the illegitimate cause of strife.

I understand that I must never forget these memories, and that I must not allow them to repeat again, for if I do, I am the oppressor. I understand that I must take action against those who oppress and those who oppress must be held accountable for their actions. And I understand I must not be blinded by the oppressors, as they will try and try to divert me from ending their reign. And I understand that as a nation we have failed, failed miserably in achieving this task. We have stood up for the oppressed, in Tibet, in Darfur, and in Russia, yet here we say nothing. We support it. We legitimize it.

I see what road the Jewish nation has taken and it is blind support for the illegitimate nation, the nation founded on oppression of the natives, the nation founded on historic premises not in existence for 3000 years, the nation kept in existence through the use of force. Israel is the antithesis to the Jewish story, and I pray that we wake up before it destroys our nation.
What do you recommend the Jewish nation wake up and do?
September 12th, 2011  
grey shadow
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
What do you recommend the Jewish nation wake up and do?
We're on the road to nowhere.

Most people in Europe think that Israel is a true democracy. We are far from it. The truth is that Israel is an even worse state than apartheid South Africa was.

Israel has a State legislative that divides its citizens after a basic criteria: not color, but religion. Jews must do military conscription and then have the right to public employment and a number of public services. Non-Jews (Christians, Muslims, atheists and others) can only perform military service under special conditions; they can’t be employed in public positions and are not entitled to a range of public services, as Jews have.

Israeli law has a section (from 1950) on the right of return, giving Jews the right to immigrate to Israel and obtain Israeli citizenship. That is not offered to others (despite UN Resolution 194 requiring Israel to allow the Palestinians to return back to their home).

The Israeli law of 2003 on family reunification gives Jews permission to family reunification, while Christians, Muslims, atheists, etc. don’t have this right. However there is a limitation: Jews have no right to be reunited with a Christian, Muslim, etc. Marriage between Jews and Arabs are not allowed, without one convert, and from 2003 an Arab from Israel can longer marry an Arab from the occupied territories. Also; Israel's inhabitants are not known as Israeli in their passport or identity card, but Jew, Muslim, Christian, etc.

Since 1967 Israel has actively worked to build a Bantustan system (similar to the South African under apartheid), where Palestinians are enclosed in enclaves and prohibited contact with Palestinians in other enclaves. The purpose of Israel's fragmentation of the occupied territories is obvious to crush the Palestinian economy and prevent the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.

Israel practices a system in the occupied territories that is similar to Article 2 (a) of the Apartheid Convention. Israel carries out extra-judicial executions of Palestinians, torture, inhumane treatment, arbitrary arrests and imprisonment of Palestinians. These sanctions are government sanctioned, supported by the Israeli judicial system, maintained by an oppressive system of military regulations and illegal military tribunals. It is legally established that there exists a legal system for Jews in the occupied territories (Israeli), while Palestinians are subject to military regulations and military courts. The Palestinians' freedom of expression, democracy and human rights are collectively deprived them while Jewish settlers enjoy full rights as Israeli citizens.

The Israeli apartheid state character is already established in 1970 by UNESCO and the 2001 UN Conference Against Racial Discrimination in Durban.

Institutionally, Israel is a parliamentary democracy after the Western European pattern. The Declaration of Independence guarantees equal rights for all citizens regardless of religion, race and gender. But this statement is not followed by a set of laws where these rights are enshrined in the provisions which apply to all Israeli citizens. On the contrary, the parliament - the Knesset - eventually adopted a series of laws that show that Israel only is a Jewish state - ie. A state for the Jewish population and all other Jews in the world. Not a state for those who are people in the state. All non-Jews seeking Israeli citizenship must take an oath. Jews automatic gets citizenship in Israel.The wording of the oath is:"I want to be a loyal citizen of the State of Israel, a Jewish and democratic state". All non-Jews seeking Israeli citizenship must take that oath. It surpasses what even the citizens of Nazi Germany had a duty to do.

Is this what you would call a democratic state?
Would you live in a country under such conditions?

So what do I suggest? That my fellow citizen´s wakes up and realizes that we are on the way to introduce the third Reich in the Middle East.

September 12th, 2011  
Del Boy
 
But you have not answered my question - obviously you have woken up and realized - so now what should your nation do?

We have your diagnosis loud and clear - now tell us your cure, your solution to the problem your nation faces, after the 60 years under siege that have produced the symptoms you have described so thoroughly.
September 12th, 2011  
senojekips
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
But you have not answered my question - obviously you have woken up and realized - so now what should your nation do?

We have your diagnosis loud and clear - now tell us your cure, your solution to the problem your nation faces, after the 60 years under siege that have produced the symptoms you have described so thoroughly.
Maybe he meant that Israel must start to reverse those problems described above. It's pretty simple really, if only you have a a true desire to solve the problem, rather than continue making it worse. Maybe he also just pointed out the problems and knowing that he can't put the changes into place therefore he has left the implementation to those who can? Just because he does not feel that he can micro manage the process he should not know that it must be done. Just as a person with serious illness knows that the solution is to go to the doctor, without having any idea of how the will undertake the cure.

The first and most vital step in any cure, is to define and admit to, the problems.
September 13th, 2011  
grey shadow
 
Del Boy; The answer is simply new politics. After years of fighting that hasn’t reached Israelis, the tent protest’s message went straight into their hearts. It sounds simplistic but this is the truth. For years, there was no way of relating Israelis to the political camp which believes in social justice and strives for a more perfect society. It’s because we always began the conversation at the point in which we defend another people and not our own. And suddenly, when one speaks of our people and their right to justice, equality and equal opportunities, the hearts open up. And when hearts open up, it is also clear that a just society cannot be an occupying one. So simple, so precise.

The tent protest is the most exciting political trend in Israel’s history. It’s most important characteristic is the rise of a new political discourse, a counter-action to the rapidly deteriorating space for democracy and living conditions in Israel over the past years. Politics of loyalty has been pushed aside to make space for the surprisingly unique tent politics. In tent politics there is no patience for shallow slogans and baseless promises; in tent politics old molds are irrelevant. We have hardly heard the words: left/right, Zionist/traitor, security, Iran or threat. This is not because the tent protest is “apolitical.” It is because too many times in the past, the right-wing conservatives have tried to pull the wool over Israelis’ eyes and de-politicize politics: of salaries, of prices, of privatization and of the Occupation. In an enormous outpouring from all types and all over the country, Israelis are clearly saying: we see you and we don’t believe you.

The expansion of the struggle and the inclusion of the doctors’ protest, the social workers, students, local authorities and municipalities, is unprecedented. It is still too early to say whether the tent protest will culminate in a collapse of the government, and the rise of a new political movement – or the rehabilitation of existing parties. The major challenge ahead is developing a political discourse that includes humanism, democracy, social and environmental justice.

We can already say that the best chance of shirking the old order toward a better future is in the tents throughout Israel. When the Israeli middle class is awakening, it seems that things have truly reached a dead-end. I support the protest. Social justice can start with housing costs but mustn’t end there, because the power of the people can and should be used to change the wrongful distribution of resources in this country. Israel is seeing the birth of a new movement, one that calls for a major and perhaps unprecedented social change. The strength of this social movement has been its ability to bring together citizens of Israel from different political and ethnic backgrounds. However the strength of this movement is also its weakness. To be able to bring the masses to the streets, protesters have largely ignored the effect of the occupation on Israel domestic problems. So to the protesters: don’t shy away from politics. Take part in it, take it over. Offer a complete social alternative and not just a struggle over another Shekel in the price of cheese. Don’t run away from the occupation – end it before it swallows us all. Israelis are paying a very high price for the occupation. At this important crossroad, Israelis cannot afford to continue ignoring the impact of occupation on their lives. They cannot continue living and voting out of fear, basing their choices solely on security issues. This is the time for Israelis to rise up, not just for a cosmetic change, but for fixing Israel problems from the roots. This is the time to end the occupation.

My mind tells me that it’s too early to reach any conclusion about a change in political discourse in Israel – but my heart says “yes,” something fundamental has happened here. It seems like the discourse is being transformed from the “warped” left-right discussions based on security and diplomacy, to the “normal” left-right discussions based on economy I feel that Israelis, over the last few years, have developed a keen “economic awareness”. As this “economic awareness” has grown, so has the frustration from the absence of the “trickle-down” economy that Netanyahu promised. Israelis now understand more about money, and they easily track to whose pockets it goes to. Not theirs. This “economic awareness”, combined with the security issues that interest fewer and fewer people as time goes by, have the potential to change the political discourse sooner than we think. This is a process that has hopefully only just begun, and will continue to develop and take shape. But for it to really constitute a new political era in how Israel defines social justice, it must define its identity clearly and demand to take the country back, not only from the government, but from those people with whom they have very little in common, who have a different vision for this country (whether it be segregating men and women on buses or Palestinians and Israelis at the supermarket) and have been too comfortable in their position at the expense of the majority for too long. If a redefinition of social justice and equal distribution is to really take hold in Israel, Jewish citizens must also deal with their own demons.

I hope it’s the beginning of a new political era in Israel. Because something totally unexpected happened: the Israeli people’s political awakening, which challenges explicitly the political system & electoral system and its official culture (by ‘its official culture’, I don’t mean Zionism: I mean rightist nationalism).

So the answer to your question is: Change the dysfunctional political system. It's that simple and yet so hard.
 


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