Algeria Lays Down Russian Arms

February 18th, 2008  

Topic: Algeria Lays Down Russian Arms

I didn't understand why the SMT model Fulcrum was being bought in the first place when an more advance model could be had. RSG MIG just can't seem to get it right and there blowing a chance to get part of the mid size fighter market. As slow as India is choosing a fighter Russia's RSG MIG is no better for not getting one complete and out the door. Pink slips from the top down until somebody gets its right.

Algeria Lays Down Russian Arms
// $1.286-billion contract under threat
For the first time in the history of Russian military cooperation, a foreign customers is returning a military hardware purchase. Last week, an agreement was signed on the return of 15 MiG planes acquired by Algeria in 2006 and 2007. Algerian President Abdelaziz Bouteflika begins a visit to Russia today, during which military cooperation will be one of the main topics of talks. Experts say the Algerians actions are not due to objections to the quality of the Russian technology, but because of domestic conditions and problems with third countries.
On February 6, head of the Russian Federal Service for Military-Technological Cooperation Mikhail Dmitriev held talks with the Algerian armed forces chief of staff Salah Ahmed Gaid. Kommersant has learned that proposed returning the planes immediately, that is, before the president's visit to Moscow, “on the basis of an oral agreement,” with documentary formalities to be taken care of later. However, according to a source in the United Aviation Construction Corp., the Federal Service for Military-Technological Cooperation, Rosoboronexport, the MiG Corp. and the Algerian Air Force signed an official agreement on the return of the planes to Russia. The Ministry of Industry and Energy confirmed for Kommersant on Friday that it was aware of “an agreement being reached with Algeria on the MiGs.”

The planes will be returned in the coming months. The contract will not be completely renounced, however, according to a UACC source. He said that Algeria was being offered more up-to-date MiG-29M2 or MiG-35 models or nonaviation hardware in exchange. The cost of one MiG-29M2 or MiG-35 is $5-10 million higher than of a MiG-29SMT. A Kommersant source in the aviation industry says that the lot of Su-30MKI(A) models for Algeria may be increased. In March 2006, a contract was signed for the delivery of 28 Su30MKI(A) jet fighters was signed and three of them were delivered last year. The returned MiGs may be sold to the Russian Ministry of Defense or to a third country. A source in the Federal Service for Military-Technological Cooperation said that it is possible that Algeria will take 15 planes back after they are improved. “It hasn't been determined yet how Algeria will compensate the advances and the forfeiture of the contract, all the more so since the repayment of Algeria's foreign debt was counted into the contract,” said the source.

The $1.286-billion contract for 28 one-seat MiG-29SMT and six two-seat MiG-29UB fighters was signed by Rosoboronexport in March 2006, during the visit of Russian President Vladimir Putin to Algeria. That contract was part of a package of agreements on military-technology cooperation with Algeria worth a total of about $8 billion. Russia agreed to write off Algeria's debt to the former USSR (about $4.7 billion) as the contract as fulfilled. For the first time, the MiG Corp. delivered the planes with a trade-in program. As new planes were delivered, MiG-29SMT/UB models bought by Algeria in the 1990s from Belarus and Ukraine were returned to MiG.

Full story
February 19th, 2008  
A Can of Man
Care to explain the difference?
February 19th, 2008  

Topic: Different Mig-29s

In basic terms
The basic Mig-29A or model 9.12, first series and most produced model known more for the one that gets shot down the most.

Off the basic 9.12 model a 9.13 type was produced or C model, a little different radar and weapons systems, from this model the Mig-29N and like the 3 sold to Peru, and India's Mig-29 fleet is SE was produced.

From the two-seat trainer basic non radar equipped aircraft added know how was used and a single seat SMT was born 9.14/9.15. Using the former back seat and added fuel cells in the spine the SMT had increased range. Threw in a radar and few tires and a new fighter was born.

Over the course of too many years (the F-16 was upgraded with new systems and different Blocks like four time in the same period) a slightly upgraded engine was born, a slightly better radar, the basic means to use laser guided weapons and more advance air to air missiles was built in, more into prototype models then real produced aircraft. Point being Russia's own air force didn't buy into it, lack of funding or not interested. An early upgraded M series was produced but not the same M as 9.47 model currently being marketed badly by the MIG Corporation. These are still in the 9.13 to 9.17 models.

9.18 model sold to Yemen is the first SMT to make a sale, this has a slightly increased inner fuel cells or cells but lacks the enlarge spine. Newer radar and maybe the D-33 I or II improved engine. Very little information on this model is released which blows my mind because MIG INC should used the press for increased sale like other companies do but that's another story.

While the 9.18s were being produced the M series was born one was produced as a two-seat strike aircraft for the Malayan air force to bid against the F/A-18D the US was trying to sell, which lost. The RMAF wanted something better the the N model Fulcrums which was basically a customer model built for the RMAF, another side story there.

9.19 with the thicker spine produced for Algeria but 15 models returned.

Off this and a few other different off shoot models produced in this time period a newer K model was made for India's carrier. This time on paper at least a newer D-33III smokeless engine (right) was produced with more thrust and better engine life, again paper does come from trees.

So the M2, the K , a a single seat M1 models what's being flown around as a Mig-35 are all around the same, the K might be the best since it's a real fighter. All have the newer engines, better radar, added internal fuel cells, and a slightly different frame. This is where MIG gets in trouble they say there new frames but an order for 90 Mig-29 for Iraq was started years ago and I and other think there are still some left. Others say those models are long gone and they are new frames the K line of Fulcrums are all newly produced models. Maybe the new frames are just wielded add-ons who knows I just know MIGs upper management isn't doing very well.

As you can see from my rough time chart of Mig-29s SMT was produced before the newer M and K series, so why would the 5th largest natural gas producer in the world buying hot **** advance Flankers want the older not as good SMT Fulcrum IN THE FIRST PLACE? MIGs upper management makes the Rafale's sales people look good. What a chance to get your better product out there for the world to see and what does MIG do "have a recall for selling old _hit" Right when there going against own Russian made Flanker series, who by the way make there deliveries near or closed to listed dates. The French who are going to dive back in and now even the back door maybe open the the Typhoon. I don't think America will sell Algeria fighters but one never knows keeping the Viper production lines open longer isn't a bad thing. Don't rule out China trying to shove there foot in too and basically could offer the FC-1/JF-17 type in there once they get there engine situation worked out. Algeria was going to use the Mig-29 as there low end fighter anyway that's why they bought the Flanker for so buying 30/40 FC-1 would serve there propose. We all know China would and will buy there natural gas with little problem, they love Africa now now don't they?
February 19th, 2008  

Topic: More info

I found this on a different forum Russia messing up I see. This might help the Rafale or Chinese types for Algeria.

Rosoboronexport selling “mutton dressed as lamb”

Russia’s arms export agency Rosoboronexport has been accused of selling fighter aircraft that are “mutton dressed as lamb” to Algeria, Syria and Venezuela.
On July 25, 2006, President Hugo Chavez ordered 24 Sukhoi Su-30 MKVs for the Venezuelan Air Force (AMV), with an option on 12 more. Of these, 14 have now been delivered. But the AMV has discovered, to its dismay, that the Su-30MKVs so far delivered have come from batches that had previously been refused by the Chinese PLA General Staff. The AMV is demanding an explanation.
Syria, for its part, has ordered 14 MiG-29SMTs. New-build MiG-29SMTs are manufactured only at RSK MiG’s Voronin Production Centre. But it appears that the aircraft for the Syrian Air Force are coming in stead from the Sokol plant in Nizhny Novgorod, which has the capability only for modernisation of existing MiG-29s. The basic aircraft are therefore second-hand.
But, according to French newsletter TTU, it is Algeria which has been the hardest hit and which has reacted most strongly. The country has ordered 30 MiG-29SMTs and six two-seat MiG-29UBTs for its Air Force, plus a further 36 fighters on option.
And the Algerian Air Force discovered in summer 2007 that all its “new” MiG-29SMTs were coming from Sokol and were, in fact, based on 15 year-old airframes.
As a result, the Algerian Government broke off all relations with Rosoboronexport in October 2007. According to one source close to the dossier, “If Moscow, or President Putin, did not realise MiG’s subterfuge and they fail to correct it, then Algeria will look to the West. As will Syria.” © DAPSS S.A., 2008, Switzerland
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February 20th, 2008  
A Can of Man
Well that's why people don't deal with the Russians.
Wow... this is all very interesting. I think Russia just wants to save money and is hoping others would not notice. But if you dish out millions of dollars, I think one would check what it buys.
Man... what a bunch of idiots.
February 20th, 2008  

Topic: West

The below article mentions Algeria and Syria looking to the west? Algeria yes but Syria no way, I don't think the French would sell to them as badly as they want Rafale sales. Russia maybe China are there choices can't think of any others?

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