Air Force B-52 carries armed Nucs by mistake ...

No one said the US military isn't a fine fighting force.
But mistakes like these must be addressed properly and punishment dealt severely to maintain that status.
 
There are no "safe" nukes. I fear that young folks entering the service for one tour may not be getting the training needed to handle, transport, and track warheads.
 
What should they do to improve the situation? :shoothea:

RTFM* usually helps. as other have said, if procedures had been followed by even ONE person involved in this mess, we wouldn't be having this conversation



















*....Read The ****ing Manual
 
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So they transported nuclear weapons..... Big freaking whoop.

During the Cold War with the Soviet Union, we had Combat Air Patrols of fighters and bombers armed with nuclear weapons. US Air Force F-106 armed with nuclear genie missiles. They're purpose was to launch them into a formation of Soviet Tu-95 Bear Bombers. The Nuclear Explosion would destory the enemy bomber formation.

US Air Force B-52 were on a constant air patrol between the USA and the Soviet Union during Operations such as Chome Dome and Hard Head. There were a number of bombers wth armed and acive nuclear weapons in the air twenty four hours a day three hundred sixity five days a year.

Those were armed nuclear weapons. Even during Operation Crome Dome during the height of the Cold War, a B-52 was lost off the coast o Spain. The nuclear weapon did not go off.

They're deigned to withstand fire, collisions, impacts, etc..... That's when they're armed and ready for combat use.

The current six nuclear weapons were older cruise missiles. They were not armed. Yes, they had they're warheads in place but that's it. Not of the weapon safeties were removed, the weapon was not active nor armed.

I feel safer with nuclear weapons then I do with Chemical or Biological weapons. To trigger a nuclear weaponm you need a lot of events to occur. But for a chemical or biological to go off, something as simple as a car crsh can do it.

The whole issue over the transport was the disregard for USAF SOPs and Rules and Regs. This is a command staff issue of not filling out proper paper work and getting the higher ups to approve.

How in the frak do you tink nukes are moved? US Postal Service? US Military Forces transport and carry nuclear weapons all the time.

The USA has both strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic nukes are ICBM, B-52s, and SSBN Bommers. Tactical Nukes are cruise missiles, land mimes (yup, nuclear land mines), Theater size rockets, fighter-bomber aircraft, etc....

I cannot believe that people are freaking out over this.... Im more woried about Russia remaking herself into a new version of the Sviet Union with Putin in charge and Iran, People's Republic of China, and North Korea.
 
So they transported nuclear weapons..... Big freaking whoop.

During the Cold War with the Soviet Union, we had Combat Air Patrols of fighters and bombers armed with nuclear weapons. US Air Force F-106 armed with nuclear genie missiles. They're purpose was to launch them into a formation of Soviet Tu-95 Bear Bombers. The Nuclear Explosion would destory the enemy bomber formation.

US Air Force B-52 were on a constant air patrol between the USA and the Soviet Union during Operations such as Chome Dome and Hard Head. There were a number of bombers wth armed and acive nuclear weapons in the air twenty four hours a day three hundred sixity five days a year.

Those were armed nuclear weapons. Even during Operation Crome Dome during the height of the Cold War, a B-52 was lost off the coast o Spain. The nuclear weapon did not go off.

They're deigned to withstand fire, collisions, impacts, etc..... That's when they're armed and ready for combat use.

The current six nuclear weapons were older cruise missiles. They were not armed. Yes, they had they're warheads in place but that's it. Not of the weapon safeties were removed, the weapon was not active nor armed.

I feel safer with nuclear weapons then I do with Chemical or Biological weapons. To trigger a nuclear weaponm you need a lot of events to occur. But for a chemical or biological to go off, something as simple as a car crsh can do it.

The whole issue over the transport was the disregard for USAF SOPs and Rules and Regs. This is a command staff issue of not filling out proper paper work and getting the higher ups to approve.

How in the frak do you tink nukes are moved? US Postal Service? US Military Forces transport and carry nuclear weapons all the time.

The USA has both strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic nukes are ICBM, B-52s, and SSBN Bommers. Tactical Nukes are cruise missiles, land mimes (yup, nuclear land mines), Theater size rockets, fighter-bomber aircraft, etc....

I cannot believe that people are freaking out over this.... Im more woried about Russia remaking herself into a new version of the Sviet Union with Putin in charge and Iran, People's Republic of China, and North Korea.

If you want a complete list of why this is bad, its best to refer to posts before this. Im assuming from your comments here you didnt read the posts before, but many of your questions, and contradictions to some of your assertions have already been awnsered.
 
556, I think we covered the fuss about this is not the danger involved in transporting nukes on external pylons on a B52 but how procedure and regulations regarding such important equipment was so easily violated at multiple levels.
If you can screw up this badly, it's not inconceivable that someone could in fact "lose" a nuclear warhead. Then the next day, Captain SoSo and Technical Sergeant Doe vanish from the face of the earth.
That's the issue here.
You're right about being harder to set off Nukes than Chemical and Biological weapons... heck this is the sort of dangers I worked with in the Marines. But that's not the point here. If such a mishap happened with Chemical or Biological weapons, my response would be exactly the same.
A complicated safety procedure was broken and in the end no one knew how it really happened. That is the issue. If those nukes were intended to be transported that way and all appropriate levels knew and it was fully intentional, then yes, it wouldn't be an incident at all. But that's not the case.
 
So they transported nuclear weapons..... Big freaking whoop.

During the Cold War with the Soviet Union, we had Combat Air Patrols of fighters and bombers armed with nuclear weapons. US Air Force F-106 armed with nuclear genie missiles. They're purpose was to launch them into a formation of Soviet Tu-95 Bear Bombers. The Nuclear Explosion would destory the enemy bomber formation.

US Air Force B-52 were on a constant air patrol between the USA and the Soviet Union during Operations such as Chome Dome and Hard Head. There were a number of bombers wth armed and acive nuclear weapons in the air twenty four hours a day three hundred sixity five days a year.

Those were armed nuclear weapons. Even during Operation Crome Dome during the height of the Cold War, a B-52 was lost off the coast o Spain. The nuclear weapon did not go off.

They're deigned to withstand fire, collisions, impacts, etc..... That's when they're armed and ready for combat use.

The current six nuclear weapons were older cruise missiles. They were not armed. Yes, they had they're warheads in place but that's it. Not of the weapon safeties were removed, the weapon was not active nor armed.

I feel safer with nuclear weapons then I do with Chemical or Biological weapons. To trigger a nuclear weaponm you need a lot of events to occur. But for a chemical or biological to go off, something as simple as a car crsh can do it.

The whole issue over the transport was the disregard for USAF SOPs and Rules and Regs. This is a command staff issue of not filling out proper paper work and getting the higher ups to approve.

How in the frak do you tink nukes are moved? US Postal Service? US Military Forces transport and carry nuclear weapons all the time.

The USA has both strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic nukes are ICBM, B-52s, and SSBN Bommers. Tactical Nukes are cruise missiles, land mimes (yup, nuclear land mines), Theater size rockets, fighter-bomber aircraft, etc....

I cannot believe that people are freaking out over this.... Im more woried about Russia remaking herself into a new version of the Sviet Union with Putin in charge and Iran, People's Republic of China, and North Korea.

I've seen a Nuclear Bazooka, a Nuclear Torpedo, a Suitcase Nuke, and a Backpack Nuke..... as well as the others, I've yet to know (before this last event) of the United States of America misplacing 6 Nuclear Weapons.
 
So they transported nuclear weapons..... Big freaking whoop.

During the Cold War with the Soviet Union, we had Combat Air Patrols of fighters and bombers armed with nuclear weapons. US Air Force F-106 armed with nuclear genie missiles. They're purpose was to launch them into a formation of Soviet Tu-95 Bear Bombers. The Nuclear Explosion would destory the enemy bomber formation.

US Air Force B-52 were on a constant air patrol between the USA and the Soviet Union during Operations such as Chome Dome and Hard Head. There were a number of bombers wth armed and acive nuclear weapons in the air twenty four hours a day three hundred sixity five days a year.

Those were armed nuclear weapons. Even during Operation Crome Dome during the height of the Cold War, a B-52 was lost off the coast o Spain. The nuclear weapon did not go off.

They're deigned to withstand fire, collisions, impacts, etc..... That's when they're armed and ready for combat use.

The current six nuclear weapons were older cruise missiles. They were not armed. Yes, they had they're warheads in place but that's it. Not of the weapon safeties were removed, the weapon was not active nor armed.

I feel safer with nuclear weapons then I do with Chemical or Biological weapons. To trigger a nuclear weaponm you need a lot of events to occur. But for a chemical or biological to go off, something as simple as a car crsh can do it.

The whole issue over the transport was the disregard for USAF SOPs and Rules and Regs. This is a command staff issue of not filling out proper paper work and getting the higher ups to approve.

How in the frak do you tink nukes are moved? US Postal Service? US Military Forces transport and carry nuclear weapons all the time.

The USA has both strategic nuclear weapons and tactical nuclear weapons. Strategic nukes are ICBM, B-52s, and SSBN Bommers. Tactical Nukes are cruise missiles, land mimes (yup, nuclear land mines), Theater size rockets, fighter-bomber aircraft, etc....

I cannot believe that people are freaking out over this.... Im more woried about Russia remaking herself into a new version of the Sviet Union with Putin in charge and Iran, People's Republic of China, and North Korea.

Well-said as always! :thumb:
 
P80 you're not getting our message.
There is a strict procedure when it comes to moving nuclear weapons and this has been violated but not only that, the authorities DON'T KNOW how this happened. If this was by design and it was a new way of doing things, this should not be an incident but this was an accident where nukes were accidentally moved from one place to another and didn't follow procedure any step of the way.
That is the incident P80.
Mistakes like this can lead to a stolen nuke scenario and believe me, there's a lot of bad guys out there who want their hands on a nuke.
As for nuclear weapon armed B52s flying around the clock during the Cold War, these missions were sanctioned by the President of the United States. Therefore this would not be an incident. These were military operations under full control. Even then some accidents did happen. However, I think although the individual accidents would be a significant incident, the operation itself should not be controversial since it was a part of America's grand strategy against the Soviet Union.
 
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Well-said as always! :thumb:

I feel that your logic is deeply flawed as an adult human being

The practices quoted by 5.56x45 were realised to be both dangerous and unnecessary,... even in a time of potential war.

Did you ever stop to think that it was as a result of things that happened during the cold war that the present safety procedures were bought into being. The USA is a country that takes it's national and international responsibilities very seriously and they have learned from their mistakes and "near mistakes".

For the USA to be seen to treat this as a "simple mistake" would be perceived by the civilised world as a gross dereliction of their nuclear responsibilities. This would look even worse in light of the fact that the USA is claiming at this very moment, that certain other countries should not become members of the "nuclear club' because of the fact that we judge their security and safety precautions as inadequate.

The one major thing that you seem to have missed, is that although the chances of an accident are low, the consequences of an accident could be well nigh apocalyptic. They could certainly put the events of 9/11 so far in the shade, as to be unworthy of consideration.
 
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NOT MILITARY BASHING ...

How many times and in how many ways do I have to make my statement before some people understand how serious a problem this FUBAR Operation really is.

During the Cold War, the Air Force WAS authorized to transit over the Continental United States on their MADD Checkmate Patrols with Warshot Nuclear Weapons loaded in bomb bays and mounted on hardpoint pylons ... that is NOT the case now (and hasn't been for many years - since the end of the Cold War) ... the Air Force no longer has authorization to carry nuclear warshots in American skies over Continental US soil on American Warplanes. The ONLY authorized transportion of these weapons is stored in their shipping/storage containers and abourd authorized military transports ... at present there is NO OTHER AUTHORIZED MANNER OF TRANSPORTATION OVER US SOIL (that I am aware of - unless it is by land transport under heavy guard). P E R I O D !

For this FUBAR operation to have taken place, so many Nuc Weapon safeguards had to have been ignored that I can't even begin to enumerate every single one of them (or) on just how many levels security has been violated. It is a long long list and it raises the spectre of an inept military and raises real questions about the security of US Nuclear Weapons throughout the the world.

THIS OPINION IS NOT MILITARY BASHING.

It's based upon personal military service and training. Anyone who has been there and done that, is as disturbed as I am. I am disturbed by this breakdown of SOP dealing with all phases of security of Nuclear Weapons ... even the simplest mistake when dealing with Nuc Weapons can have a far ranging consequences beyond the obvious (detonation). When the dearest wish of world terrorists is to lay their hands on Nuclear Weapons, any breakdown of security and procedures could be disastrous. It could make 9/11 look like two kids arguing in the school yard.
 
I don't know how clearer this can get.
If anyone STILL does not buy this I don't think anything will convince them.
 
Redneck, it is best remembered that some people will gladly fly in the face of reality, especially when it does not suit their views.
 
The nukes could not have detonated from a crash. They have to be armed etc. But it was a violation of law and therein is the problem.

Heads will roll only because of partisan politics... so be it. No point in trying to work together, sniping and potshotting is far easier than reaching concensus and working for the greater good.


Yeah well, I have heard mixed stories to whether or not they were armed or not. One source said they were others say they were not. Even if they were armed I doubt the AF would publically admit to it cause doing so would get them in hotter water they are in now. So who knows for sure??

I think you all miss the greater threat of this FUBAR. It was not that they could have gone off accidentally, or the legal ramifications it was they were unaccounted for for 3 hours.
i.e Nobody had no idea they were missing for 3 hours. Imagine had they been stolen, by the time anybody realized it they would be almost half way to Pakistan.

Now thats a frightening thought.
 
Yeah well, I have heard mixed stories to whether or not they were armed or not. One source said they were others say they were not. Even if they were armed I doubt the AF would publically admit to it cause doing so would get them in hotter water they are in now. So who knows for sure??

I think you all miss the greater threat of this FUBAR. It was not that they could have gone off accidentally, or the legal ramifications it was they were unaccounted for for 3 hours.
i.e Nobody had no idea they were missing for 3 hours. Imagine had they been stolen, by the time anybody realized it they would be almost half way to Pakistan.

Now thats a frightening thought.

They would not have been Armed, the Firing Sequence would not have been complete, but, after having said that, I've seen where the misplacement of 6 Nuclear Weapons was said to be "impossible" and yet here we are.

So, they most likely were not Armed, the Firing Sequence would have most likely not have been complete.

A Terrorist getting his hands on a Special Weapon though would be catastrophic, and seeing how the United States Military has shown a total disregard for Nuclear Weapons Safety, I say a restructuring of Military Command and Control is called for.... the new people taking the place of those who failed will no doubt want to make sure that such an event does not happen again.
Perhaps the United States Army should take over all security of United States Air Force Special Weapons.... thus letting the Air Force know loud and clear that they are no longer to be trusted with the Security of Special Weapons.
Some (perhaps many) will no doubt call such an idea "bashing".
This talk about "Military Bashing" is a smoke screen from some on this Board.
The want of some of the people on this Board for Americans to embrace as above reproach those who have failed the Nation is mind numbing.
The United States Military totally messed up in this case, with the noted exception of the Ground Crew at Barksdale. The United States Military used to be strong enough to take her lumps and move on to fight again..... but now I see things may be different in the minds of some people.

Unless of course the Nukes were sent to be used in Combat Operations by the CIA against an Arab Target, then the Military would be pretty much blameless in this case, but then the Congress would no doubt wish to Impeach the sitting US President ASAP.
 
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We have to call the shots according to the evidence given.
I'm not a military basher, I've always supported the military. But when something has gone wrong, you just have to call it.
Denying this only hurts your own credibility and not only that it can be dangerous if you let that sort of thinking enter your own life. You have to face the realities of the situation and when things go terribly wrong, they must be addressed and taken care of.
This is not military bashing.
I think the issue here though is the partisan split that we have in the forum. In this case I am agreeing with many people I have had very different opinions with in the past and I am disagreeing with people I generally agree with. There is a reason for this.
 
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