Aid Workers kidnapped in Somalia

A Can of Man

Je suis aware
http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSL5656164._CH_.2400

By Abdi Sheikh and Ibrahim Mohamed

MOGADISHU, Nov 5 (Reuters) - Gunmen stormed an airstrip in Somalia on Wednesday, kidnapping two Kenyan pilots and four European aid workers in the latest strike against humanitarian organisations in the lawless Horn of Africa nation.

The Europeans -- two French, a Bulgarian and a Belgian -- were among a group on a runway near the central Somali town of Dusamareb when the gang struck, local residents said.

"Heavily armed men with three battle-wagons and three small cars kidnapped the foreigners who landed a plane and also some people waiting for them at the airstrip," said Farah Osman.

Aid workers have been increasingly targeted this year for assassination and kidnap in Somalia, where Islamist insurgents are fighting the government and its Ethiopian military allies.

Suspicion generally falls on clan militia and the insurgents. But the Islamists accuse President Abdullahi Yusuf's government of staging such attacks to blacken their name.

The four aid workers were with French-based Action Contre La Faim (ACF). "The kidnappers took the four Action Contre la Faim workers as well as the two Kenyan pilots of a plan chartered by the European Commission," ACF said in a statement.

"A crisis unit was immediately set up in Paris and Nairobi."



WOMEN TAKEN

A local charity worker said the two French hostages and one Bulgarian were women.

Mired in anarchy and awash with weapons since the 1991 overthrow of dictator Mohamed Siad Barre, south and central Somalia is off-limits for all but a small band of foreign aid workers, and local staff face extreme risks by association.

Kidnapping can be a lucrative business in Somalia, with hostages generally treated well in anticipation of a ransom.

Gunmen are still holding hostage two Italians, one Kenyan and a Briton -- plus three locals -- abducted in April and May.

Two other foreign aid workers for Medecins du Monde, of unknown nationality, are still being held after being captured in east Ethiopia and taken over the border in September.

The kidnappings and attacks are crippling the operations of aid agencies at a time when U.N. officials say Somalia ranks as one of the world's worst humanitarian crises along with Sudan's Darfur region, Congo, Iraq and Afghanistan.

More than 1 million of Somalia's 9 million people live as internal refugees, and their plight has been worsened by record food prices and drought. (Additional reporting by Estelle Shirbon in Paris and David Brunnstrom in Brussels; Writing by Andrew Cawthorne; Editing by David Clarke) (For full Reuters Africa coverage and to have your say on the top issues, visit: africa.reuters.com)

-------------------------------------------------

Interesting.
So why do people even bother going to Somalia in the first place?
And the Islamists say the same thing time and time again... they always say someone else did it. At least they're not saying no Muslim could ever do such a thing
 
In fact Redneck, we are following this event and we dont ask the same questions as you...

In Somalia the situation is very bad in the humanitarian level... People are sick and starving and living in a chaotic environment. And it's a tribal country, slaughters can start very easily...

There is a huge need for humanitarian aid. But the problem is that these organizations play on their image rather than on armed escorts to defend themselves.

The problem is that some of these groups get support from religious or political groups... In Afghanistan a French humanitarian worker from "aide laique" was kidnapped. And I fear that the reason behind that is the very name of his organisation... I dont think that the Taleban love the idea of people working for an organisation promiting the separation of state and religion in their lands... It's like the priests in Afghanistan, they were accused of coming to convert the Muslims... Etc...

It's a huge communication problem.

But when it comes to Somalia, I think that we have to accuse crime first. A lof of people there can kidnap people to make money. It's easy to understand in a country when there is no active police Etc... Of course, they can use religious reasons to hide their real motives, it's easy to do.

But the explanation they gave can be true, the president's folks can do this kind of things to give a bad name to the Islamists... It happened before, remember Algeria? when the military sent soldiers disguised as Islamists to butcher civilians? It's not impossible.

And Redneck, easy on Muslims man. I know many Muslims and they are good people. Honest hard working citizens. They are people just like us...
 
LeMask, for the 5 billionth time, yes I know.
I spent my entire teenage life in Muslim countries, had plenty of Muslim friends.
Do I have to spell this out in 10 different languages?
 
Alright, good for you...

I just didnt like the
At least they're not saying no Muslim could ever do such a thing
...

Heard a lot of hate speech against Muslims recently... it's really making me angry... didnt meant to accuse you or anything.
 
It's a reference to 9/11 when many Muslims around the world said that no Muslim was ever capable of doing such an act when in fact they had been the front runners in causing terror. It's nonsense. They don't even try to hit legitimate targets.
If you ask me, the attack on the Pentagon wouldn't have counted as an act of terror, rather an act of war had they not used a plane full of civilians as their main weapon. But it is of no surprise since the attitude is that all Americans are guilty.
 
Okay, I will bite.
How do you define Muslim? the people who respect the laws of Islam or the Muslims as "people"...
What is a Chinese? a man from China or a man who obbeys to China's government?

I would agree with them. A muslim cant be a terrorist or a bad guy. As he cant be a thief.

Islam as a religion believes in the right to property. It's forbidden to steal following the laws of Islam.
So is there thieves among Muslims? ... Of course there is. There is a lot of thieves in Muslim countries, they have prisons just like us. So what is the meaning of this?

So you have to see a difference between the religion and the people. In Islam, suicide is forbidden. Starting offensive wars is forbidden. Killing non-fighters is a crime. etc etc...

I invite you to read about the rules of war in Islam. I found that very interesting... I have a book about that on my night table...

And it's a very complex topic... I even know a Muslim who thinks that suicide attacks are a sin, but yet, he doesnt condemn it because he thinks that it's not up to him to tell what is wrong and what is right... Only god can judge.

I'm honestly lost in such subjetcs... It's too difficult. But I know for sure that following the Coran and the words of the prophet Mohammed, killing innocents is forbidden. And collective punishment is forbidden too.

So the "all americans must be killed" is definetely not lawful following their own standards... Anyway...

As I personnaly think that nationalism is a big source of trouble... I think that the Palestinians created terrorism through a mix of nationalism and religion.

Religion cares about god only. And god cares only about universal good and evil... But once good and evil turns into good for the nation and bad for the nation... a suicide attack turns into a good deed as long as it's serving the interests of the nation...

God is just a promise of heaven in the story... made by the nationalists...

And they will never admit that it's good to let the jews have their own country and that god might agree with that...
 
I disagree.
If a Christian steals or sleeps with another man's wife, he is still a Christian although a really really bad one.
A Muslim is a person who identifies him or herself as a follower of Islam. How well that person follows the teachings or how that person interprets it is largely up to the individual. Those who follow Islam but have a radical view are Muslims. Sorry to say, but they are. And when millions of Muslims cheer on the actions of these people who attacked the WTC and the Pentagon who identified themselves as Muslims, one can only conclude that indeed they are Muslim.
Read what you wrote and you sort of contradicted yoruself.
 
And you are absolutely right... but it still up to the definition of the word...

Can you accuse christianity when a christian sleeps with the wife of another man?
But what if there was a problem of education and that the message isnt understood?

All you need is a christian who thinks that it's okay to sleep with the wife of another man as long as he is a "bad person". And then you have a twisted form of christianity roaming the world...

And you are damn right, it's all about interpretation. Damn complex topic...

and the good thing in christianity, at least for catholics, is that there is a centralized power to solve this kind of problems.
the pope can excommunicate a christian if he is doing things against the church's will...

but it's impossible in Islam. They cant be excommunicated or anything... Sad story...
 
Last edited:
Instead the Imams who preach hate and murder for their own power (believe me, having Satan in human form in the real world can get people very motivated) are the ones who get noticed.
It really is too bad.
 
You are damn right. You have to know that in Algeria as an exemple, there was Islamists... I mean genuine religious people who thought that butchering civilians was indeed a rightful thing to do... the proof? others Islamists were doing it. That's how genuine Islamists believed the lie and worked on it.

In the beginning, it was the military special forces disguised as terrorists butchering civilians... and a group of uneducated religious zealots took them for the real deal, and started acting like them.

And you cant imagine the horrors they have done. Forget the classic stuff we hear about in the media, think about the new ideas they had. Like waiting in the hospitals asking for the papers of the pregnant woman... because she have to be married to give birth. And the forced marriages... It's how they call rape. They come to a village and take the women as "slaves"...

and as for the Imam thing, anybody can call himself an Imam. All they need is people ready to believe them. And with the number of uneducated idiots around... it's the easiest thing to do.

Shiites have less problems on this level as they have a clearly defined clergy... But the Sunnites who are the majority suffer the most of this problem.

And guess what? what is the less problematic school of Islam? the Soufis... they are a very small minority and they have even less problems with terrorism... because they are a school who doesnt get involved in the political process...

Now that an interesting view...
 
Listen Redneck, don't try to speak of a situation that you know nothing of. The Islamic Courts are not the ones killing the aid workers nor kidnapping them, you are just going with the trend that was established since September 11th which is that anything bad happens lets blame it on the Islamist you are just jumping on the bandwagon. The ones doing these kidnappings are the warlords, the same warlords that fled Somalia to Ethiopia when the Islamists took over all of Southern Somalia (formerly Italian Somaliland) and Mogadishu. Instead of twisting things to fit your agenda and your Western propaganda do us all a favor and do some research into the facts, stop with the hearsay, baseless accusations and maybe I'll give you credit and take you seriously if you knew what you was talking about.

The UN, the Arab league, the EU, Russia, China, Red Crescent/Red Cross and certain American media have all given credit to the Islamic Courts for bringing stability to Somalia, when they ruled not one piracy occurred all the pirates and warlords fled because the Islamist used Sharia law and those that stay were executed for the pillaging and murders of Somalis and foreigners. Google it and you will see how aid ships were sailing into Mogadishu and Kismanyo the 2 largest ports in Southern Somalia freely without fear, harassment and extortion. No aid workers were kidnapped and no ships hijacked while they ruled Southern Somalia and this is a fact, as soon as the Islamic Courts were overthrown by the Ethiopians and America the same warlords that America was fighting in 1993 in Mogadishu were installed as the new government and if this is not hypocrisy I don't know what is.

Abdullahi Yusuf the current president is an infamous warlords who has the blood of hundreds of thousands of Somalis on his hands, the recently replaced Prime Minister was a former warlord, the Mayor of Mogadishu is a former warlord. So how do you install a warlord government who the people of Somalia never voted for, who the people of Somalia despise because of their 17 year pillaging of Somalia, who are so corrupt and expect the country to function.

What you don't understand is the Islamic Courts were started by the Somali people in Somalia and the diaspora who were tired of the warlords and wanted someone to drive them out, so the Somalis financed and gave them public support that is why the Islamic Courts were so successful at establishing order in Somalia when they ruled because they had the backing of the people who were just fed up with these warlords. Now the reason this puppet/warlord Ethiopian-American installed government is not functioning is because it does not have the support of the people, they would have had some credibility if they didn't have so much blood on their hands and didn't come on the backs of Ethiopian tanks and American aircraft.

That is why even now the Islamic Courts though they were defeated conventionally the Somali populace still support them and shelter them, they have popular support. Now go do some research before you label and condemn like you know what you are talking about, because I know about the situation a lot more than you and I can punch holes in your claims like Swiss Cheese.
 
Oh god, so much to say...
First, I follow UnitedSomalia in what he said, I've heard about the Islamists... I think that their name was the union of Islamic courts (I love the name) were the only "regime" to actually succeed in briging a little peace and stability in Somalia.

It's hard to believe, but these religious zealots have actually done great things overthere... I wont give them much credits by the way... doing more to the people than bandits and warlords did isnt a hard thing to do...

And UnitedSomalia, can you tell me please the story about this drug plant they consummed so much in Somalia, did the Islamic courts really banned it? did the people follow them?

And for those who can forget that... Somalia isnt Canada or Europe... the infrastructure is pretty poor, the education too, the economy is weak... We shouldnt expect to see a working democracy rise there overnight...

I dont like religious zealots... but they arent completely desperate over there. They have public support. And when you have support, you have things to loose...

So negociation for human rights is then possible... If they can bring stability and that we know where to find them... A negociation process is then available...

I think that we should forget this all white, all black doctrines and adopt a more subtle strategy to bring human rights and democracy in third world countries...

And maybe that with some stability, we wont have to deal with situations like these pirates and kidnappings bandits...

And remember, even Communist China is not using the free market system... Never say never...

I'm still under the shock of a black president in the US... There is hope in mankind afterall...
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/homepageCrisis/idUSL5656164._CH_.2400
Interesting.
So why do people even bother going to Somalia in the first place?
And the Islamists say the same thing time and time again... they always say someone else did it. At least they're not saying no Muslim could ever do such a thing


You know I am kind of sick of aid workers, christians and all other general "do gooders" who trundle off to countries that are unsafe, spout what ever self indulgent clap trap they are there to spout, get kidnapped and then expect governments to come to their rescue.

Basically I think it should be made clear to anyone going into these places that they are on their own.
 
MontyB, there is people there who need help... These men and women who go there are the real heroes... They take risks to help others.

And helping them is the noblest thing you can do. If risking your life to protect the innocent and dogooders is not good enough for you... then I dont know what is worth such risks...

They are useful people, they help the weak.
 
You know I am kind of sick of aid workers, christians and all other general "do gooders" who trundle off to countries that are unsafe, spout what ever self indulgent clap trap they are there to spout, get kidnapped and then expect governments to come to their rescue.

Basically I think it should be made clear to anyone going into these places that they are on their own.

I agree.
We had some Christian missionaries kidnapped in Afghanistan and boy did those guys hurt Korea's reputation in the international community. The government TOLD them not to go and they signed some bullsh*t contract that said "I will accept death if necessary" and then they get kidnapped which is obviously what would happen and they start crying for rescue.
Our government (Under the impotent Noh Moo-hyun) paid off the Taliban to get them released. Boy was I embarrassed about being Korean that day.
 
MontyB, there is people there who need help... These men and women who go there are the real heroes... They take risks to help others.

And helping them is the noblest thing you can do. If risking your life to protect the innocent and dogooders is not good enough for you... then I dont know what is worth such risks...

They are useful people, they help the weak.

I have no doubt that there are people who need help and I have no doubt that these people want to help but there also comes a point where people have to help themselves and if the price of having aid agencies come into your country is to provide them with security then I do not believe it is a bad thing.

Many of these countries will remain basket cases as long as the world provides the people with food so corrupt governments can concentrate on entrenching themselves further by buying weapons to keep the people in line, to quote something I read in a local newspaper about 5 years ago "In 1985 Bob Geldof created Band Aid to feed the 3 million starving Ethiopians in 2005 there were 30 million starving Ethiopians what the hell did we achieve".
 
Last edited:
MontyB, there is people there who need help... These men and women who go there are the real heroes... They take risks to help others.

And helping them is the noblest thing you can do. If risking your life to protect the innocent and dogooders is not good enough for you... then I dont know what is worth such risks...

They are useful people, they help the weak.
Let's be brutally honest, all other things aside the country is an economic and governmental basket case, most of which is either caused or aided and abetted by religious dogma and greed. If this country was my house, I would just burn the place down and start again. There appears to be no person or group either capable or willing to break this cycle.
 
"And UnitedSomalia, can you tell me please the story about this drug plant they consummed so much in Somalia, did the Islamic courts really banned it? did the people follow them?"-LeMask

Its called Qaat/Khat or Gaat depending on where in Somalia you are from, it is widely used in Somalia and now it has even found its way to Ethiopia, Kenya, Djibouti, and some Arab countries where its used by the natives. It was not considered a drug in Somalia before the Islamic Courts took over, I will clarify this though it is a mild stimulant and in no way the level of Class as drugs that are mainstream in the West and East that you may hear about in day to day basis, its not even in the potency level as certain Marijuana. Also when the Islamic Courts took over they banned it nationwide and punishment usually varied depending if you were caught selling it, or were caught using it and how much you had on you; the punishment could range from public whipping, fines, and and jail terms to extreme terms when someone was caught trafficking enormous amounts they could be sentenced to death.

The Islamic Courts ban was followed widely in all of Southern Somalia where the Islamic Courts took over, people followed or did it discreetly at their own risk. Overnight it went from people using it on the streets, tea cafes and it being so cheap and readily accessible to it being so scarce that the prices for it ten folded, the Islamic Courts eradicated the plant in all of Southern Somalia and the prices jumped accordingly do to demand and the risk one had to take to importing large amounts from outside Southern Somalia.

Now its no longer banned since the Islamic Courts were defeated by the warlords, Ethiopia, America and the corrupt and warlord infested government that was installed thrives of on this. The so-called government they installed is so corrupt that from the president down they are all former warlords which have ties to current warlords and get bribes and royalties to look the other way in the kidnapping of foreign workers, Ships, selling of drugs that should have been illegal, extortion and racketeering.
 
Back
Top