AFSOC plan for C-27s takes nosedive

rock45

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AFSOC plan for C-27s takes nosedive


Funding vanishes in ’10 budget proposal
By Sam LaGrone - Staff writer
Posted : Friday May 1, 2009 14:04:14 EDT
Six months ago, Air Force Special Operations Command thought it had a solution to its gunship problem.
AFSOC was slated to pick up 16 C-27 Spartans and turn the light cargo planes into nimbler little brothers of the legendary AC-130 Spectre, according to budget documents obtained by Air Force Times.
Now, the deal is off because Army funding for 40 of the Italian-made C-27s has been stripped from the fiscal 2010 budget, according to a defense official familiar with the decision, first reported by The Hill newspaper. The Army intended for the Spartan to replace its aging C-23 Sherpa.
Defense Secretary Robert Gates has laid out changes to several major weapon programs that he wants to make but hasn’t mentioned the Joint Cargo Aircraft program, a $3 billion partnership by the Army and the Air Force to buy the C-27. Congress must sign off on Gates’ recommendations.
One budget document shows that U.S. Special Operations Command, which oversees Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine special ops units, wants the Spartan so desperately that it finagled a way to get the plane before the Army and the Air Force.
SOCom arranged to get two C-27s in fiscal 2011 as part of the Army buy and agreed to pay the Army back in fiscal 2015, according to the budget memo, dated in October.
The command would not comment on the budget memo, but spokesman Maj. Wes Ticer denied command officials had even settled on the Spartan.
“Although several airframes are under consideration, no specific aircraft type has yet been programmed for this purpose,” Ticer wrote in an e-mail, responding to questions from Air Force Times.
According to a report on U.S. Special Operations Command’s needs, the AC-27 was listed as a top priority for AFSOC.
The growth of SOCom by two new special forces groups and the aging problems with the two dozen AC-130s required rapid deployment of a new “precision fire capability,” analyst Roger Carstens, a former Army special operator, wrote in a paper titled “The Future of Special Operations Forces.”
In a series of briefs to Carstens, AFSOC was less coy about its desire for the plane.
“Both the USAF and SOCom have approved the AC-27…,” Carstens wrote.
U.S. Special Operations Command is backpedaling because its buy occurred outside the procurement process, according to a source familiar with the details.
“It was a wink-and-nudge deal,” the source said.
One defense official familiar with the deal seriously doubts Congress cut the Army’s funding because of political pressure from states expecting the 40 planes to be assigned to their Army National Guard operations. Many of the planes would go to districts at risk of losing their Guard missions because of the 2005 Base Closure and Realignment Commission decisions.
“I don’t think any of it is a done deal,” the defense official said. “I think there is a lot left to be done with decision making in that program.”
Guard leaders have talked up the Spartan as a panacea to airlift problems in Afghanistan. The Army relies heavily on aging CH-47 Chinook heavy-lift helicopters to ferry troops. Guard leaders have said the Spartans would carry more gear faster into forward operating areas and austere runways, easing the wear and tear on the Chinooks.
The Army still wants the planes.
“We still have a requirement for the capabilities that the JCA provides,” Brig. Gen. Walter Davis, director of Army Aviation, told the House Armed Services air and land forces subcommittee at an April 23 hearing.
Davis did not address questions about the reports of the Army program being cut.


Link
http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/05/airforce_JCA_socom_050109/
 
Yeah, just cancel the one you need and keep the 5,000 other programs that cost infinitely more and no one needs.
 
Do you think the C-130 supporters might be concern they might loses sales? I know the aircraft isn't in the same weight and payload class but one can assume it would cost less the a C-130J? I'm a big C-130 fan don't get me wrong you can't like military aviation without liking the mighty C-130 series.

Could it be possible the Army may be stepping on Air Forces toes with wanting this aircraft and some control? Is this a behind the scene turf war? One never knows but I thought the Air Force was interested in this transport as well.
 
If this thing goes too far you can do what the Chinese have done: Scrap the different services and make them under one command. Hell, I'm starting to be FOR that idea.
 
Not a good idea to centralize all branches under one leadership...Unless you are talking at THE highest level.

Different services got different needs.
No one can tell you better what the need then the guys seriving under that particular branch.
 
If it gets into stupid piss fights that lead to nowhere and one service won't cooperate with the needs of the other, I think the whole point of separating them is lost.
If the Air Force doesn't want to support the Army, which happens to be the most important mission currently, then just put their butts under the Army just like old times. You'll have wastes of money like the F-22 scrapped in no time.
You can have a generic Military with services reduced to simply the largest divider in the MOS categories.
All will wear the same uniforms.
If they don't get their crap together, might as well do this. Hell I'd hate it too but I'd rather see the job get done.
 
If it gets into stupid piss fights that lead to nowhere and one service won't cooperate with the needs of the other, I think the whole point of separating them is lost.
If the Air Force doesn't want to support the Army, which happens to be the most important mission currently, then just put their butts under the Army just like old times. You'll have wastes of money like the F-22 scrapped in no time.
You can have a generic Military with services reduced to simply the largest divider in the MOS categories.
All will wear the same uniforms.
If they don't get their crap together, might as well do this. Hell I'd hate it too but I'd rather see the job get done.


So then you got a scrapped F-22 fighter..What are you going to do when one is needed the next time?
What you are proposing would create an even worse situation with everyone running around playing catch up.

I find this quite simple.
If one branch borrow from another to get equipment they need now they will pay the next fiscal year.
If you are the branch that borrowed you can´t order **** you can´t pay for, simple as that.
Now if we only could get our civilian leadership to understand this concept as well..
 
Not a good idea to centralize all branches under one leadership...Unless you are talking at THE highest level.

Different services got different needs.
No one can tell you better what the need then the guys seriving under that particular branch.

Is that why "purple" ops are coming to the fore?

These days more and more support services are combined for the sake of saving costs, makes sense. To some degree I agree with keeping the services separate - just think of the effect of a 10% cut across the board!! Although I reckon that there are huge savings to be had in the services bureaucracy as well as the upper echelon.
 
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