This Afghani lark..

Bimcnorth

Bimcnorth

Active member
Unless something is done the situation in Afghanistan will go from bad to worse and lets face it.
A solution must include the Talebans or at least parts of the movement.

The old warlords that got pushed out by the Talebans and that are in power right now is a bunch of corrupt tribal leaders that can´t cope with running the country and much less inspire the population to make an effort for the common good.
There´s a rumour that The Guardian of the two Holy Mosques will be asked to interfere and I can just hope that king Abdullah of KSA does accept an opportunity to help unite a sundered nation.

The situation right now with UAE as the only arab country with full units in Afghanistan also places extreme demands on our troops as they are called in wherever the situation is a bit touch and go in regards to the local population and their feelings.

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You can try to include the Taliban. But IMO I think your gonna find them to be all or nothing in their mentality.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
If they want to negotiate, it's because they need time to rearm, regroup and retrain their new guys.
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And it is an opportunity for us to do some more infrastructure work and get some real intelligence to start rooting the terrorists out. Think about the Chinese symbol for danger, it also represents opportunity?
 
Well someone might do well to ask the population of Afghanistan who are not Taliban if they are willing to go back to living under the 3rd Century Jackassery that is the hallmark of the Taliban. If they are no problem. If they are not maybe we should just steady continue to send em to see Allah.

Because once you open the door the Taliban is gonna take as much as they can get, up to and including control of the country.....again.
 
Yeah but we should let the UCAVs do the work. There's nothing glorious about getting randomly blown up by unmanned, almost invisible flying things. Doesn't draw as many recruits or followers as "glorious" gun battles against the inflidels of the west.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Yeah but we should let the UCAVs do the work. There's nothing glorious about getting randomly blown up by unmanned, almost invisible flying things. Doesn't draw as many recruits or followers as "glorious" gun battles against the inflidels of the west.
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But it generates as many enemies for those that survive, but lose innocent family members. Remember that this is a place where vendetta reigns, we should harness that and get the population working for us. However that means boots on the ground & getting rid of some of the corrupt warlords who rushed in to fill the power vacuum after the taleban, who filled it after the Russians, who filled it after the PDPA couldn't hold on, who filled the vacuum after the king was overthrown & so on.

Historically every effort to conquer Afghansitan has failed, because the invader tried to enforce their views on the Afghan tribes, this group of failures includes the taleban. Let them come up with their Afghan version of government, but we should help them with stability & peace to do it.
 
Get rid of the poppy fields.

Pay the farmers for it so they don't hate us more than they already do. The Taliban and other insurgents lose a main source of income. Get rid of a large portion of drugs that are screwing up our countries.

Get rid of the warlords.

What country in the history of civilisation has been stable when you have numerous groups all gunning to be the most powerful in the country through armed violence.

To be honest, the Taliban are the least problem. The country was ****ed up before they came to power. Allegiance is to the tribe/region, not the country.
 
Just because you have boots on the ground doesn't mean you won't have civilian casualties.
Just keep blowing them up from above until they get it right.
 
During millennia no outside force have ever managed to control Afghanistan using military means..it have always been a case of increasingly bigger losses by the occupying force.

And at one point they realise that they are sinking money and lives into a bottomless hole and leave.

The Talebans are not a homogenous organisations but rather a federation of Islamic schools that took upon themselves to unite a country totally wrecked by decades of warfare.
Thus they created their military organisation that actually was nothing to write home about, their success in taking over Afghanistan was because of their affinity to the Islamic schools which meant that they had the religious authority to issue holy judgement..like telling people to stop fighting and go home.
 
Thus they created their military organisation that actually was nothing to write home about, their success in taking over Afghanistan was because of their affinity to the Islamic schools which meant that they had the religious authority to issue holy judgement..like telling people to stop fighting and go home.
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In this region Islam is the ultimate weapon. Like it or not, any group can use the Quran(same as ny other master piece of holy scripture) to legitimize themselves. The Talibans(meaning "students" by the way) were no diffrent.

Non the less, you may be right. The Ottoman empire, whileoperating in diffrent areas but against similar forces(notably beduins and Mamluks) use to crush resistance and than let the former leaders of resistance come back to power with conditions-pay your taxes and aknowlege the Halif as your ruler. This worked well because A) It prevented another rise of the resistance, B- The local leaders usually knew the country better than the central regieme in Turkey. I dont know anymore. My country has spent 60 years fighting what is a natinal movment on religous steroids. Nothing phases the much. We tried killing, we tried hugging, we tried just about any trick. I think that we should all recognzie that the idea of occupying a country like Afghanistan and making order isent very sound. You can go in and destroy every terror base, and you will have quiet for a while. Or you can occupy and fight for decades, and at least the people killed will be soldiers(and lets face it, its part of our job) instead of civilians- this is essentially what israel is doing right now. There is no end-all batle with terror, just a long long war of attrition. Your goal is to keep them fighting for their lives so they cant produce attacks against your civilian body.
 
Getting rid of the poppy fields gave a lot of manpower and support to the enemy right there. A LOT of farmers who were otherwise apathetic started fighting us because it was such a prevalent crop.

Making problems for yourself in the name of the War on Drugs.
 
Bimcnorth said:
During millennia no outside force have ever managed to control Afghanistan using military means..it have always been a case of increasingly bigger losses by the occupying force.

And at one point they realise that they are sinking money and lives into a bottomless hole and leave.
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The British and then the Russians learned that lesson.

When will the U.S.?
 
Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan was lost from the start without somehow blocking the porous Pakistan border, through which the Taliban and others could appear, kill, and then disappear at will. I said as much from the first days, because it was obvious; our leaders did not have will to pursue this matter and so this campaign was always going to be a very different kettle of fish from Iraq.

I put forward the proposition from the start that our enemies would be happy to pick off our boys off at leisure for 100 years if necessary, or a 1000.

Only Genghis Khan ever controlled the Afghans, and he never occupied, but he left nothing standing but small huts built of bones, by passing over it like a storm regularly, and that is why you see the landscape of Afghanistan to this day.
 
I think they will be involved in the peace plan there. But I guarantee the first sign that they try to take things over completely again they will be removed (again) and I think they realize that. Some moderates within the Taliban seem ready to negotiate. At they very least getting them on our side divides the Taliban and causes problems.
 
Del Boy said:
Unlike Iraq, Afghanistan was lost from the start without somehow blocking the porous Pakistan border, through which the Taliban and others could appear, kill, and then disappear at will. I said as much from the first days, because it was obvious; our leaders did not have will to pursue this matter and so this campaign was always going to be a very different kettle of fish from Iraq.

I put forward the proposition from the start that our enemies would be happy to pick off our boys off at leisure for 100 years if necessary, or a 1000.

Only Genghis Khan ever controlled the Afghans, and he never occupied, but he left nothing standing but small huts built of bones, by passing over it like a storm regularly, and that is why you see the landscape of Afghanistan to this day.
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Agree 100%

Should wounded you fall on the Afghan Plain.

And the women come out to hack up your remains.

Roll to your rifle, and blow out your brains.

And go to your God like a solider.

Kipling advice to a British Solider I believe. Also relevant today I think.
 
Yep, and today comes the news that President Obama appears to have reached the same conclusion, and is attempting to act militarily and politically in the case of Pakistan as well as Aghanistan. Has to happen that way if Afghanistan is to be saved.
 
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I'm pleased to see that there will be a joined up plan to tackle the situation. I'm even more pleased to see that 4,000 troops will be put into increasing training for the Afghan Army, now we need to see something similar for the Afghan police. I feel that this will enable the ISAF forces to withdraw in an orderley fashion - because we will have given the Afghans ownership of the situation.
 
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