The Afghan Taliban detainees - Lawful or Unlawful Combatants - Page 6




View Poll Results :Are the Taliban Lawful or Unlawful Combatants?
Unlawful 6 37.50%
Lawful 10 62.50%
Neither Combatants or NonCombatants 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Boots
 
June 24th, 2005  
CSmaster
 
i totally understand ur feeling and hatre of those coward terriosts who stab ppl in the back and hide their evil face behind black masks


however,

the reason i can tell the difference between U.S and some other totalitirian regimes is taht U.S gives ppl (no matter whom, even mass killers in U.S) the right to have a fair trial as a part of basic human rights.

it is really for U.S' benefit to live up to its own principle of giving human rights to ppl, otherwise, all over the world ppl will believe americans are just hypocratics and stop listen to americans, and consequently democratic movement will delay and human rights will not be spreaded.

not a picture waht i want to see (espcially in China, now chinese government can have an excuse of delaying democratic reform).
June 24th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PershingOfLSU
Fragmentary munitions are perfectly legal. Infact, that's how most hand grenades work. Fragmentary only means that upon detonation the shell breaks apart spraying the area with pieces of metal.

Also, depleted uranium munitions are for use only on armored targets, I can't think of any logical reason for someone to fire an ADPU round at a person.
US illegal ammo:
I was speaking about the CBU-87/B Combined Effects Munitions (CEM)
BLU-97/B Combined Effects Bomb (CEB) : http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/dumb/cbu-87.htm (Illegal)

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0330-02.htm
http://www.informationclearinghouse....rticle5335.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0709-07.htm
June 24th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Hate to double post, sorry mods, but I forgot this link!

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ons/pgu-14.htm

They are used to destroy light vehicles, so I guess they could hit somebody....
If you use this kind of ammo you do not respect customs of law also.
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Boots
June 24th, 2005  
CSmaster
 
winners write the law of war remember..

losers have nothing to say but to listen and obey

and that is pretty much what is happening in today's world
June 24th, 2005  
PershingOfLSU
 
Despite their obvious distaste for them, not even Human Rights Watch claims that cluster munitions are illegal. You'll have to read the full article but that isn't too much to ask:

http://www.hrw.org/backgrounder/arms...er-bck1031.htm

Also, this qoute was taken from here off of your own link to Global Security:

"In late 2000 and early 2001, various news reports, mostly European, reported allegations of an increase in leukemia cases related to exposure to DU while serving in the Balkans. Subsequent independent investigations by the World Health Organization, European Commission, European Parliament, United Nations Environment Programme, United Kingdom Royal Society, and the Health Council of the Netherlands have all have discounted any association between depleted uranium and leukemia or other medical problems among Balkans veterans."

This site also has information on depleted Uranium towards the bottom: http://www.uic.com.au/nip53.htm

Lastly, before someone points it out. The Apache round in question is a duel purpose munition that is used against personnel. However having seen its effects, there isn't really enough left of the target for them to have to worry about heavy metal poisoning.
June 24th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
Convention (IV) respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land and its annex: Regulations concerning the Laws and Customs of War on Land. The Hague, 18 October 1907

Art. 23. In addition to the prohibitions provided by special Conventions, it is especially forbidden
(a) To employ poison or poisoned weapons;
(b) To kill or wound treacherously individuals belonging to the hostile nation or army;
(c) To kill or wound an enemy who, having laid down his arms, or having no longer means of defence, has surrendered at discretion;
(d) To declare that no quarter will be given;
(e) To employ arms, projectiles, or material calculated to cause unnecessary suffering;
(f) To make improper use of a flag of truce, of the national flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy, as well as the distinctive badges of the Geneva Convention;
(g) To destroy or seize the enemy's property, unless such destruction or seizure be imperatively demanded by the necessities of war;
(h) To declare abolished, suspended, or inadmissible in a court of law the rights and actions of the nationals of the hostile party. A belligerent is likewise forbidden to compel the nationals of the hostile party to take part in the operations of war directed against their own country, even if they were in the belligerent's service before the commencement of the war.

Concerning cluster bombs: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security...legalbombs.htm

Respect weapons with DU: http://www.web-light.nl/VISIE/du_uno.html

June 24th, 2005  
PershingOfLSU
 
The first link merely states that using a cluster munition against civilian targets is illegal. So is using a JDAM. By the very nature of the fact that it's a civilian target attacking it with anything is illegal.

Now, what you meant to say was that using a cluster munition may be illegal in certain cases. For example using it in a built up city were there is a reasonable reason to believe that it can harm civilians due to its large dispersal area. However that doesn't mean it's illegal to use it in an area where there is not a reason to believe that you're causing undue danger to civilians.

You're second link is from 1999. However as I already stated, a United Nations report in 2000-2001 found no association between use of depleted uranium rounds and medical problems among Balkans veterans. The group most likely to be exposed to depleted uranium. Frankly living above a granite deposit has been show to be at least as dangerous unless you actually breathe in the uranium.
June 24th, 2005  
Corocotta
 
 
I will give you a link of serious studies concerning DU, take you time and read it, there are tons of info. I would love if you could give me a link to see the UN study you are talking about. If after reading all this you still belive that DU is harmless....well, I wont have much more info to argue with, but I hope that you will read it carefully.

http://www.idust.net/
June 24th, 2005  
PershingOfLSU
 
As I already said, breathing or consuming it is dangerous just like breathing or consuming lead. That's why the United States has ceased to use lead bullets for the military. But outside of depleted uranium shells, there isn't much else capable of piercing modern tanks. Tungsten, although heavy is too brittle to pierce armor as well as depleted uranium. Depleted uranium can be dangerous, however it isn't illegal.
June 25th, 2005  
bulldogg
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PershingOfLSU
As I already said, breathing or consuming it is dangerous just like breathing or consuming lead. That's why the United States has ceased to use lead bullets for the military. But outside of depleted uranium shells, there isn't much else capable of piercing modern tanks. Tungsten, although heavy is too brittle to pierce armor as well as depleted uranium. Depleted uranium can be dangerous, however it isn't illegal.
You've hit a nerve.

Would you like to be one of the soldiers who has to go in after these rounds have been expended to secure the ground? This is quite a cavalier attitude you have with complete disregard for the foot soldier who must breathe and is required to move in because air power does NOT win a war, someone has to be at ground zero to control the area. And if you don your gas mask your chances of fratricide increase to 40%. So the careless use of this ammunition flies in the face of taking care of your troops, legality be damned.