The Ace of Aces

Adolf Galland flew the Me-262 during the war and the Meteor during his time working with the Argentinian air force and he claimed that it was a fine aircraft. If he could fit the Meteor engines to the Messerschmitt Me 262 airframe he would have had the best fighter in the world.
 
The concept had been kicking around since the 30's. Sounds like the air ministry dragged their heals on this one. I don't believe it was quite as advanced as the ME-262, sweep wing, speed. However we will never really know since they never came into combat. Sounds like the meteor had better electronics. But had it come out in 1940 it would have blown the socks off the Luffwaff.

Another high tech WW2 weapon that saw it's greatest potential after the war.
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One of the so called Air mInistry experts told Frank Whittle that his jet engine would never work, typical blinkered attitude of the period. The Meteor had a far more reliable engine then the ME262, the Rolls Royce engine fitted to the Meteor had a life of over 100 hours before a major service was required, the 262 engine had an engine life of between 12 and 25 hours before a major service, the 262 engines also had the bad habit of catching fire on start up.
 
With reference to the strategic bombing campaign by the USAAF and RAF; One of the most critical targets was the rail transportation system of Western Europe. It was realized by Allied planners that the rail and road system provided Germany the means to react with great speed to any Allied military initiative in France or the Low Countries. Before a Cross Channel invasion could be made, two things had to happen. (1) The German Army had to be cut down to size with casualties on the Eastern Front, and (2) the transportation/communication system of Western Europe had to be severely damaged. By 1944 Germany was fighting on interior lines and could shift even it's limited resources quickly, sometimes achieving local numerical superiority in spite of it's overall numerical inferiority. The bombing campaign against the French rail system caused considerable civilian casualties because the rail lines, with marshaling and switching yards ran right through French towns. I think it's true that post - war analysis showed that the strategic bombing campaign was not as decisive as it's supporters claimed, but I maintain that it was an important contribution to final victory. Also, from 1941-1944, it was one of the only ways that the British and Americans could show the Russians that they were doing their part.
 
One of the so called Air mInistry experts told Frank Whittle that his jet engine would never work, typical blinkered attitude of the period. The Meteor had a far more reliable engine then the ME262, the Rolls Royce engine fitted to the Meteor had a life of over 100 hours before a major service was required, the 262 engine had an engine life of between 12 and 25 hours before a major service, the 262 engines also had the bad habit of catching fire on start up.

Sounds like the air ministry was a bit shortsighted.

The Germans had a definite quality control issue with that jet engine. I don't know if that was true of their other jets as well, since so few were produced. It also needed longer runways which the allies made sure to bomb and expensive fuel (which was a precious commodity in Germany at the time).

However all being said the ME-262 must be given credit though for it's short lived combat ability. The Allied pilot had their hands full when they came up against it and didn't fair to well.
 
misc

With reference to the strategic bombing campaign by the USAAF and RAF; One of the most critical targets was the rail transportation system of Western Europe. It was realized by Allied planners that the rail and road system provided Germany the means to react with great speed to any Allied military initiative in France or the Low Countries. Before a Cross Channel invasion could be made, two things had to happen. (1) The German Army had to be cut down to size with casualties on the Eastern Front, and (2) the transportation/communication system of Western Europe had to be severely damaged. By 1944 Germany was fighting on interior lines and could shift even it's limited resources quickly, sometimes achieving local numerical superiority in spite of it's overall numerical inferiority. The bombing campaign against the French rail system caused considerable civilian casualties because the rail lines, with marshaling and switching yards ran right through French towns. I think it's true that post - war analysis showed that the strategic bombing campaign was not as decisive as it's supporters claimed, but I maintain that it was an important contribution to final victory. Also, from 1941-1944, it was one of the only ways that the British and Americans could show the Russians that they were doing their part.



There’s no dought the allied bombing helped prepare the way for D-Day. The Casualties on the Eastern front were a constant source of attrition.
Virtually paralleling the Normandy fighting was the Germans largest catastrophe to date on the eastern front operation Bagration, the destruction of Army Group Center. These dual defeats Normandy (Falaise) and Bagration virtually crushed the Germans ability to wage any kind of offensive war. Note Yes Hitler attacked in the battle of the Bulge and in Hungry but these was desperate attacks using all available reserves.
Although the Germans were good at moving the manufacturing around and to smaller facilities the sheer amount of bombs dropped had to cause some setbacks. Bombings such as the Ruhr dams, and the ball bearing plants and Ploesti oilfields to name a few.
Also sure we didn’t have between 3 or 4 million men in Europe before 44, but still we drained valuable German resources in North Africa and Italy. I believe the allies had close to ½ million men in North Africa. Also there was the war in the Atlantic also drawing German resources.
 
With reference to the strategic bombing campaign by the USAAF and RAF;.

After Britain's defeat at Dunkirk and the subsequent victory during the Battle of Britain and the Blitz, the only way Britain could hit back was the bombing campaign, which went a long way to raising British moral that they were at least "hitting back."
 
A big what if is..if they had hit the oil industry excusivly, both Ploesti and the syn oil plants as soon as they could have been effectively hit how things would have gone. In the Pacific if the B-29s had been sent to Darwin to wreck the Dutch East Indies oil fields instead of China and/or The Mariannas the Japanese might have collapsed as a modern mechanized State sooner than the way it actually went.
 
Early British Contributions

After Britain's defeat at Dunkirk and the subsequent victory during the Battle of Britain and the Blitz, the only way Britain could hit back was the bombing campaign, which went a long way to raising British moral that they were at least "hitting back."

And it wasn't long afterword's they were hitting them in North Africa as well. I believe by mid 1940 The British were fighting the Axis in Libya. These actions ended up siphoning off valuable German troops away from the Eastern front and ended up as an Axis catastrophe in 43. With only a handful making it to Italy.
This as you mention combined with the bombing champagne overcame the stigma of the early period and showed Hitler the British were not about to be left in the background twiddling their thumbs.
 
A big what if is..if they had hit the oil industry excusivly, both Ploesti and the syn oil plants as soon as they could have been effectively hit how things would have gone. In the Pacific if the B-29s had been sent to Darwin to wreck the Dutch East Indies oil fields instead of China and/or The Mariannas the Japanese might have collapsed as a modern mechanized State sooner than the way it actually went.

George I do believe a lot of the Japanese ships carrying the oil were sunk by US subs
 
And it wasn't long afterword's they were hitting them in North Africa as well. I believe by mid 1940 The British were fighting the Axis in Libya. These actions ended up siphoning off valuable German troops away from the Eastern front and ended up as an Axis catastrophe in 43. With only a handful making it to Italy.
This as you mention combined with the bombing champagne overcame the stigma of the early period and showed Hitler the British were not about to be left in the background twiddling their thumbs.

What REALLY annoys me, Stalin accused Churchill more or less of cowardice in the delay in opening a second front when Britain was not ready. Lets not forget Stalin sent Hitler a telegram congratulating him after the British were evacuated at Dunkirk, as well as sending Hitler raw material for his war machine. Its a pity Churchill didn't remind him of the fact.
 
What REALLY annoys me, Stalin accused Churchill more or less of cowardice in the delay in opening a second front when Britain was not ready. Lets not forget Stalin sent Hitler a telegram congratulating him after the British were evacuated at Dunkirk, as well as sending Hitler raw material for his war machine. Its a pity Churchill didn't remind him of the fact.
Plus the Luftwaffe was re-established and trained in secret in the Soviet Union. A Soviet Icebreaker provided the means for a KM Raider to sail to the Pacific by way of the northern coast of the Soviet Union.

"George I do believe a lot of the Japanese ships carrying the oil were sunk by US subs "

Yes, but I'm thinking they didn't have fuel supply problems until well into '45. The B-29s started operations in India/China in April '44, had they been hitting the oil fields this may have happened much sooner.
 
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Stalin

Stalin was scared of Hitler. He continued to ship war materials to Germany oil, iron, manganese, etc. right up until Barbarossa. It was no secret that Hitler hated the Communist and the Slavs. Stalin ignored these facts and the German buildup.

The British leaked information on the German buildup to the Soviets for months before Hitler launched Barbarossa. Much of this came from Bletchley crytptologists who concluded what the Germans were preparing for the USSR and informed Prime minister Churchill. The British forwarded information indirectly through agents in Switzerland and Eastern Europe Both the British and Americans warned Stalin. Churchill also sent a personal telegram to Stalin. Stalin chose to ignore these warning.
 
Because these informations were unreliable and irrelevant .Till june 1941,there were no indications of a German attack .Besides,as the Red Army was in a deplorable situation,there was nothing that Stalin could do . Nothing .
 
Stalin failed to take advantage of the intelligence data concerning Barbarossa. This included intelligence reports from Soviet agents in Western Europe, Eastern Europe, and Japan. Reports from foreign sources in Berlin, London, Helsinki and Warsaw. Reports from Soviet border troops that detailed the German military buildup along the Soviet western border. All of this supports the fact that Stalin willfully ignored information that did not match his preconceived notions.
By putting the Red Army particularly the Red Army stationed along the frontier on a high alert he could of down scaled some of the initial disasters. By not doing so they were sitting ducks to the initial German attack.
 
This is not correct

1)The informations Stalin received were unreliable (and those from Sorge were the worst):they were on the level of :if on 9/1 2001 someone had told that a terrorist action against the US was nearing,giving no proofs .

2)Reality is the following :
Build-up of the Ostheer
December 1940 : 35 divisions (9 mobile) :thus no danger

1 may 1941:60 divisions : no danger

5 june : 93 divisions (7 mobile):no danger

Most of the mobile divisions arrived a week before the attack,and than it was to late to do anything


3) The Russian Army :was not good at all :tank divisions without tanks,without ammunition,without fuel,without trained tank crews,but with much to much tanks.

The Soviet Army was as a Potemkin village (not unusual in Russia/the SU)


A good source is : RKKA capability in 1941 on the Armchair General site (41 pages,611 posts)
 
If the Air Ministry had listened to and backed Frank Whittle the Gloster E.28/39 could have been developed further and fought the Battle of Britain.

True but had the British rolled out the jet in the Battle of Britain the Germans would have simply thrown their efforts into the He-178 development which had flown in 1939.

The whole of WW2 was about development and counter development, most of the Spitfires development could be attributed to the Germans countering the current Spitfire variant.

No one side had a massive technological advantage over the other at best maybe a 6 month lead could be hoped for but I suspect that in reality 6 weeks was closer to the real difference.
 
This is not correct

1)The informations Stalin received were unreliable (and those from Sorge were the worst):they were on the level of :if on 9/1 2001 someone had told that a terrorist action against the US was nearing,giving no proofs .

2)Reality is the following :
Build-up of the Ostheer
December 1940 : 35 divisions (9 mobile) :thus no danger

1 may 1941:60 divisions : no danger

5 june : 93 divisions (7 mobile):no danger

Most of the mobile divisions arrived a week before the attack,and than it was to late to do anything


3) The Russian Army :was not good at all :tank divisions without tanks,without ammunition,without fuel,without trained tank crews,but with much to much tanks.

The Soviet Army was as a Potemkin village (not unusual in Russia/the SU)


A good source is : RKKA capability in 1941 on the Armchair General site (41 pages,611 posts)

As explained Stalin received plenty of data concerning the oncoming onslaught. Which by the why did not make their way up t the line in less than a week before the start of the invasion.The British cryptologists at Bletchley used enigma to determine the treat and warn him months in advance. It took longer than a week to bring up the men, hardware, supplies and support for a 3 million man invasion.

The Soviets had a 6 million man army with > 6 thousand tanks, x2 the that of the Germans. They like the France before them didn't know to effectively use them. There machines ran they were just blown up by the Germans who used superior tactics or in the case of the Red Army Air Force was caught on the ground due to unpreparedness.
 
True but had the British rolled out the jet in the Battle of Britain the Germans would have simply thrown their efforts into the He-178 development which had flown in 1939.

True, but the jet could have done far more damage to the German bomber fleet and the Luftwaffe as a whole.


The whole of WW2 was about development and counter development, most of the Spitfires development could be attributed to the Germans countering the current Spitfire variant.

No one side had a massive technological advantage over the other at best maybe a 6 month lead could be hoped for but I suspect that in reality 6 weeks was closer to the real difference.

I agree with that, except Germany was well ahead with U Boat development with its type 21. Thankfully only two were made operational but came too late in the war.
 
As explained Stalin received plenty of data concerning the oncoming onslaught. Which by the why did not make their way up t the line in less than a week before the start of the invasion.The British cryptologists at Bletchley used enigma to determine the treat and warn him months in advance. It took longer than a week to bring up the men, hardware, supplies and support for a 3 million man invasion.

The Soviets had a 6 million man army with > 6 thousand tanks, x2 the that of the Germans. They like the France before them didn't know to effectively use them. There machines ran they were just blown up by the Germans who used superior tactics or in the case of the Red Army Air Force was caught on the ground due to unpreparedness.

We disagree : without the mobile divisions, Barbarossa was impossible ,and the mobile divisions were going east only in Germany .

The Soviet Air Force was caught on the ground due to unpreparedness,but if it had more informations,it still would be unprepared,because of structural problems .
 
True, but the jet could have done far more damage to the German bomber fleet and the Luftwaffe as a whole.




I agree with that, except Germany was well ahead with U Boat development with its type 21. Thankfully only two were made operational but came too late in the war.



1. Henschel’s HS 293 Radio-controlled Glide Bomb was the most effective guided weapon of the war a bomb that destroyed a number of destroyers and trading ships. 1st cruise missile.

2. The Horten Ho 229 described by many as “the world’s first stealth bomber”, was the first pure flying wing plane to be powered by a jet engine. Like many of Germanys advanced weapons it came out to late to make an impact in the war.

3. The Sturmgewehr 44 or StG 44 is considered by many to be the world’s first assault rifle. The StG 44’s design was so successful that modern assault rifles such as the infamous AK-47 and M16 designs are derived from it. It arrived too late in the war to make much of an impact on the battlefields of war-torn Europe. By war’s end an Infrared vision version was available.

4. As for the ME-262 despite its late start and engine burn issue. It still claimed a minimum of 542 Allied kills for a little over 100 ME-262 downed. Many of these kills were P-51's and P-47's. They remained in service for Czechoslovakia until 1951 It was still the the world's first operational jet-powered fighter aircraft.

5. The buzzsaw was the best machine gun of the war firing at x2 the rate of any other machine gun in action and with greater accuracy.

Germany had many advanced concepts but often shortsighted leadership. It has been said that Hitler had a WW1 mentality when it came to utilizing new technology until it was too late. These are just some other end of war examples (other than the electric type 21 U-submarine with x2 the speed mentioned) that could have helped Germany had they been developed earlier.

It was a war of technology with the allies taking the lead in radar, the Atomic bomb, P-51, Hobart’s funnies.

Unfortunately for those lousy Nazi's, Germany’s technology later proved of more benefit to the victors than it did to Germany.
 
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