About Hurricane Katrina

Many of us I am sure. But I feel that if you duck out or disregard an issue, it is like saying you don't care, or that the other person is 100% correct.
 
Marinerhodes said:
WARmachine88 said:
I dont mean that helping other nations is bad, but at least U.S should take care of itself first.

I dont see how waging a war in Iraq benifit the Katrina victims in anyways, but I am sure if there is no war in Iraq, U.S government can have at least more money to help to rebuild rather than asking the rest of the world to help (and U.S is like the richest nation in the world).
Click to expand...



Umm...the war started a few years ago and Katrina came thru a few days ago. Your analogy is a bit off friend.

Even if there was no war on, the timeline of the government being able to do anything would probably be the same.

As far as rebuilding..let's get people safe and let the waters recede. One step at a time.

If I recall correctly, we have yet to ask anyone to help us. It has been offered but we have not asked.
Click to expand...

how much money have we spent on Iraq war?????/

even if half of them have gone into helping the victim, it will be awesome!!

asking for help?? of course when the government is so in debt and budget is a mess.
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N04624260.htm
http://www.zaman.com/?bl=national&alt=&trh=20050906&hn=23709
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/01/20050103-12.html
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9205201/


Well I was wrong about the help part. Google is my friend and I forget about it sometimes.
Marinerhodes said:
Umm...the war started a few years ago and Katrina came thru a few days ago. Your analogy is a bit off friend.

Even if there was no war on, the timeline of the government being able to do anything would probably be the same.

As far as rebuilding..let's get people safe and let the waters recede. One step at a time.
Click to expand...


I still stand by my other statements.

As for the monies spent on the war vs. helping rebuild. If we had not spent that money on the war do you honestly believe that it would still be sitting in some huge bank account just waiting for a disaster to strike? No, it probably would have been spent elsewhere, perhaps foriegn aid, perhaps HOMELAN Security projects, perhaps developing more roadways, perhaps more frivolous spending on studies about the habitat of the average cockroach. Who knows.
 
Missileer said:
Most of you have forgotten about a Federal law called Posse Comitatus. The Armed Services cannot be used to perform State, City, County, or any other civilian law enforcement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html
Click to expand...

I haven't forgotten no, but if the USMC sets up relief operations and civilians attempt to rob and steal or assault Military personnel then they have the right to defend themselves with the proper level of force. This is not to say that they are there to police the civilians. They are there for humanitarian aid.

Got a quick question too. I am in the USMC. I am employed by the Department of the Navy. The Department of the Navy is employed by the federal government. Doesn't logic follow that I am a federal employee?


EDIT:
The text from the link missleer posted:
"POSSE COMITATUS ACT" (18 USC 1385): A Reconstruction Era criminal law proscribing use of Army (later, Air Force) to "execute the laws" except where expressly authorized by Constitution or Congress. Limit on use of military for civilian law enforcement also applies to Navy by regulation. Dec '81 additional laws were enacted (codified 10 USC 371-78) clarifying permissible military assistance to civilian law enforcement agencies--including the Coast Guard--especially in combating drug smuggling into the United States. Posse Comitatus clarifications emphasize supportive and technical assistance (e.g., use of facilities, vessels, aircraft, intelligence, tech aid, surveillance, etc.) while generally prohibiting direct participation of DoD personnel in law enforcement (e.g., search, seizure, and arrests). For example, Coast Guard Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS) serve aboard Navy vessels and perform the actual boardings of interdicted suspect drug smuggling vessels and, if needed, arrest their crews). Positive results have been realized especially from Navy ship/aircraft involvement.
 
Marinerhodes said:
Missileer said:
Most of you have forgotten about a Federal law called Posse Comitatus. The Armed Services cannot be used to perform State, City, County, or any other civilian law enforcement.

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/comrel/factfile/Factcards/PosseComitatus.html
Click to expand...

I haven't forgotten no, but if the USMC sets up relief operations and civilians attempt to rob and steal or assault Military personnel then they have the right to defend themselves with the proper level of force. This is not to say that they are there to police the civilians. They are there for humanitarian aid.

Got a quick question too. I am in the USMC. I am employed by the Department of the Navy. The Department of the Navy is employed by the federal government. Doesn't logic follow that I am a federal employee?
Click to expand...

The Units being used now are National Guard, Coast Guard, and other State regulated forces. If there are any active duty forces, it takes 48 hours to receive permission from Congress but I have never heard of that happening. Waco came too close for comfort.
 
Marinerhodes said:
But the USMC is there. As humanitarian aid. Not law enforcement.
Click to expand...

I hadn't seen or heard of any use of them except for supplying aircraft and other equipment. If there was a shooting, the ACLU would have a field day.
 
Here is one link for many of the USMC related articles.

http://www.marines.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/HurricaneRelief

Excerpt:


. . . Approximately 80 Marines from the headquarters of the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit will fly Saturday to Belle Chasse Naval Air Station, a reserve base southeast of New Orleans. Their immediate objective will be to establish a capability to command and control follow-on forces.

Ten Marines arrived at Belle Chasse late Thursday to assess the base’s ability to support a larger force. Twenty more Marines are due to arrive today. (This was posted on Sept 2nd)

Additionally, more than 300 Marines from Combat Service Support Detachment 24 will sail aboard two naval vessels, the USS Shreveport and the USS Whidbey Island. They’ll take with them a wide array of equipment well-suited for humanitarian-assistance and disaster-relief operations. Included are water-purification devices, seven-ton trucks, dump trucks, fork lifts, generators, and humvees. . . .

Please read the articles in their entirety. The one above mentions that Marines were their in helos taking people off of rooftops on Thursday.
 
I was listening more than watching but I think I heard the commentator saying that the USS Keersarge was anchored in the Gulf and I think they were providing some kind of support.
 
Italian Guy said:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Any comment on this?
Click to expand...

Yep. The Corps of Engineers built and operate every lock and dam on the upper Mississippi. They cut bends that drain into lower flats so the deep water can't move fast enough to cut trenches in the riverbed and erode the banks. Besides levees there are deltas all the way from Cairo, Illinois to the Gulf. Some of them about the size of a couple of football fields.

I will try to find my pictures of when I worked on the river and show you some of the deltas.
 
Missileer said:
Italian Guy said:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Any comment on this?
Click to expand...

Yep. The Corps of Engineers built and operate every lock and dam on the upper Mississippi. They cut bends that drain into lower flats so the deep water can't move fast enough to cut trenches in the riverbed and erode the banks. Besides levees there are deltas all the way from Cairo, Illinois to the Gulf. Some of them about the size of a couple of football fields.

I will try to find my pictures of when I worked on the river and show you some of the deltas.
Click to expand...

Uhm ok thank you. But the sense of the post was about the charges of budget suts reported in the article :)
 
Italian Guy said:
Missileer said:
Italian Guy said:
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4200/is_20050606/ai_n14657367

Any comment on this?
Click to expand...

Yep. The Corps of Engineers built and operate every lock and dam on the upper Mississippi. They cut bends that drain into lower flats so the deep water can't move fast enough to cut trenches in the riverbed and erode the banks. Besides levees there are deltas all the way from Cairo, Illinois to the Gulf. Some of them about the size of a couple of football fields.

I will try to find my pictures of when I worked on the river and show you some of the deltas.
Click to expand...

Uhm ok thank you. But the sense of the post was about the charges of budget suts reported in the article :)
Click to expand...

And I'm saying if they cut a dollar out of the Corps budget, little towns like Alligator, Mississippi are going to flood every year because the deltas need repair almost constantly. Right now, with the erratic weather patterns, the upper Mississippi has to be funded more heavily now than ever. They need to almost double the budgeted flood controls.
 
Sorry, my bad. So why do you think they cut the budget then? It would be nice to learn what the Engineers budget is for each State.
 
Italian Guy said:
Sorry, my bad. So why do you think they cut the budget then? It would be nice to learn what the Engineers budget is for each State.
Click to expand...

That is a great question. The upper from Cairo which is mile 0 to just past St Louis controls the depth for navigation which means that the lower river doesn't have locks and dams because the river is deep enough, It is also extremely wide so the Engineers built the bends, flood plains, levees, and deltas to control the yearly flooding so New Orleans has never had to worry about broken or breeched dams. Every now and then, they will reroute the river to the old riverbed past Baton Rouge to lower the river at New Orleans. The biggest problem in the lower river is silt which has to be dredged constantly because it will "move" the bottom and widen the river. We were warned on the towboats that any deckhand that fell overboard would sink like a rock because every pocket, crease, or crevice on you would fill with sand in half a minute.

Here is the CoE website. Click on the "Key Issues" link in the menu to the left of the page to learn how one State affects another.

http://www.mvd.usace.army.mil/
 
Missileer said:
Italian Guy said:
Sorry, my bad. So why do you think they cut the budget then? It would be nice to learn what the Engineers budget is for each State.
Click to expand...

That is a great question. The upper from Cairo which is mile 0 to just past St Louis controls the depth for navigation which means that the lower river doesn't have locks and dams because the river is deep enough, It is also extremely wide so the Engineers built the bends, flood plains, levees, and deltas to control the yearly flooding so New Orleans has never had to worry about broken or breeched dams. Every now and then, they will reroute the river to the old riverbed past Baton Rouge to lower the river at New Orleans. The biggest problem in the lower river is silt which has to be dredged constantly because it will "move" the bottom and widen the river. We were warned on the towboats that any deckhand that fell overboard would sink like a rock because every pocket, crease, or crevice on you would fill with sand in half a minute.

Here is the CoE website. Click on the "Key Issues" link in the menu to the left of the page to learn how one State affects another.

http://www.mvd.usace.army.mil/
Click to expand...

Thank you very much Missileer.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top