Mighty Mouse
Active member
7500 Guardsmen on the ground, a $10.5 billion downpayment, an 8 miles relief colomn all say otherwise. Help is there and more is on the way.
About Hurricane Katrina
7500 Guardsmen on the ground, a $10.5 billion downpayment, an 8 miles relief colomn all say otherwise. Help is there and more is on the way.
C/2nd Lt Robot
Active member
Guess you didn't hear about a C-5 being flown in tomorrow with supplies, Whispering Death. I know because my cousin is the one who's going to fly it.
mzspaztastic
Active member
Whispering Death said:
i can tell you this. no one has seen a hurricane like this. this is by far the worst, and there was not a lot of time to prepare seeing as it hit florida as a category 1.
ive seen a lot of hurricanes, and i've seen the damage it can cause, as well as hear about the severity of the situation (my dad's always gets called up to the disaster control center with the military), and this one is unbelievable.
now i've never really been a big fan of bush, or a fan at all, but he's in a tough spot, and he's doing what he can. and if he didnt pay any attention to the oil reserves and decide to release them, we would still be complaining about that, too.
it's a terrible situation, and the troops, the workers and the government are doing what they can. i'd like to see anyone else do it better or faster.
Whispering Death
Active member
Mighty Mouse said:
In peacetime we can deploy a division sized infantry unit ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD within 48-72 hours of being called up and we can't get a decent sized relief effort into one OF OUR OWN STATES until day 5. Even President Bush agrees with me, this is completely unacceptable.
Cadet Chief Robot said:
Tell your cousin I think he's a hero.
mzspaztastic said:
You miss my point. We know what hurricaines do. We know water, wind rain, all that good stuff. What happens when it's a chemical weapon or a dirty bomb from a terrorist attack in LA or NY or Dallas or Chicago? We, as American people, don't know what radiation does or what mustard gas does. So if our government can't effectively respond to a weather storm I'm speachless at how they can tell us they're ready to protect us from terrorists.
Some people have told me "well you want a witch hunt like they did after 9/11 acting after the fact like a whiney child!" No, not at all. I was digusted at the 9/11 commission but this is different and here is the difference between 9/11 and this New Orleans catastrophy. We couldn't see 9/11 comming. Airplanes DO NOT fly into buildings, hurricanes DO make landfall in the gulf. This isn't a surprise, for as long as I've been alive people have talked about how vulnerable New Orleans is to a hurricane because it's below sea level. We knew that huge storms can hurt anywhere in the gulf, we know terrorists want to strike our cities, and we arn't ready to save and protect our citizens.
mzspaztastic
Active member
whispering:
you missed my point, as well. hurricanes are fairly common, and they have never been this bad. meaning that even as a category five there was no predicting the damage it would have caused.
think about national security and september 11. there were warnings. there were threats. there are always threats. but when most threats are just that - threats - it means that you are vulnerable to the fact that one day, it will be more than that. it is impossible to act on every threat.
and that's the case with this hurricane. no one could have predicted this. and as with all hurricanes, preparations were made, however this particular hurricane was so devastating that none of the standard preps were helpful in the grand scheme of things.
evacuations were mandatory. state of disaster and emergency was declared prior to landfall. [/i]these are the ways hurricanes are prepared for, and those preparations were made.
and i'd like to see those reporters put down their cameras and do something, as opposed to standing by and watching these people beat each other. how they can sleep at night knowing that they are watching this and doing nothing i cannot fathom. so i honestly don't want to hear the reporters talk about how nothing is being done, when they themselves are there and could be doing something yet they are choosing not to.
you missed my point, as well. hurricanes are fairly common, and they have never been this bad. meaning that even as a category five there was no predicting the damage it would have caused.
think about national security and september 11. there were warnings. there were threats. there are always threats. but when most threats are just that - threats - it means that you are vulnerable to the fact that one day, it will be more than that. it is impossible to act on every threat.
and that's the case with this hurricane. no one could have predicted this. and as with all hurricanes, preparations were made, however this particular hurricane was so devastating that none of the standard preps were helpful in the grand scheme of things.
evacuations were mandatory. state of disaster and emergency was declared prior to landfall. [/i]these are the ways hurricanes are prepared for, and those preparations were made.
and i'd like to see those reporters put down their cameras and do something, as opposed to standing by and watching these people beat each other. how they can sleep at night knowing that they are watching this and doing nothing i cannot fathom. so i honestly don't want to hear the reporters talk about how nothing is being done, when they themselves are there and could be doing something yet they are choosing not to.
Whispering Death
Active member
mzspaztastic said:
Again no, not at all. Before 9/11 you never thought of planes hitting towers. There has ALWAYS been talk about being below sea level and the threat of hurricanes. You say there is "no prediction the damage it would have caused" well I'l like to direct you to the front page "Callander" section of the LATimes from yesterday because it had a great article on a pulitzer prize winning report done by multiple award winning authors from 3 different publications depicting EXACTLY what happened. The only difference is this multiple part series was done in 2002. It talked about everything we've seen including specifically talking about how people would take refuge in the superdone etc. etc.
It accurate predicted what would happen in the event of a major evacution, in fact they said 100,000 would stay behind so they seem to have UNDERESTIMATED that number.
Here, read it for yourself:
http://www.calendarlive.com/tv/cl-et-rutten2sep02,0,1982966.column?coll=cl-home-more-channels
And that is just one list of articles and programs on the issue. If you are going to sit there and say "who would have thought a hurricane would hit New Orleans or that building a city below sea level might cause problems?" then you really have no clue at all man because all this has been discussed for a long time. When the French origionally set up the city the indians told them that the region flooded periodically and not to build there. That's why the French quarter is on the highest portion of land of the whole city. So since before the city was even built the city was a known flood risk. This isn't a 9/11 one-off. This is like the "big one" quake of California, we knew it was comming, the gov't just decided not to make preperations for the aftermath.
mzspaztastic
Active member
not directly related to you, whispering, but i'd like to see everyone complaining get off their butts and do something to help, the reporters need to put down their cameras. the people in areas where they can help with the survivors need to do it, and if you can spare the time, join the red cross. as for me, i'm taking the two day red cross classes so that i can be ready to go down there for two weeks as soon as my personal matters are taken care of.
Whispering Death
Active member
mzspaztastic said:
I'd like the gov't to do it's job and not let people die of starvation, thirst, exposure, and murder in the Superdome; the supposedly "safe" part of town. And that isn't talking about those shot dead in the streets of the upwards to tens of thousands who drowned in their homes.
I donated my share to the Red Cross and I'll be helping those that seek refuge in my small town of Waco, Tx but I find it absolutely abhorent that it took till' the 5th day do get adequate supplies down there in what is supposed to be the best and most powerful nation on earth.
mzspaztastic
Active member
tragic as it is, this is a widespread devastation that cannot just be fixed very quickly. the problem isnt so much that we dont have the supplies, it's that we also dont have the manpower to do it. trying to save and help that many people on such limited amount of help is not something that is an easy task, and the workers are doing the best they can.
i've been watching this catastrophy unfold over the last few days and after reading your post i have a few comments:
when the origional order to evacuate new orleans was given (before the hurricane arrived), why wasn't the NG activated then to evacuate those who had no transport/money to get out of town?
the media crewscovering new orleans had small choppers and runabout boats....hardly the equipment to conduct ANY sort of relief activities.
a CNN crew did inform authorities that THREE hospitals that were thought to be evacuated were in fact full.
the medias role isn't rescue & relief....it's is information. with out the media few people would know about what is going on and the international community would be much slower to act.
STOP BAGGING THE MEDIA!
when the origional order to evacuate new orleans was given (before the hurricane arrived), why wasn't the NG activated then to evacuate those who had no transport/money to get out of town?
the media crewscovering new orleans had small choppers and runabout boats....hardly the equipment to conduct ANY sort of relief activities.
a CNN crew did inform authorities that THREE hospitals that were thought to be evacuated were in fact full.
the medias role isn't rescue & relief....it's is information. with out the media few people would know about what is going on and the international community would be much slower to act.
STOP BAGGING THE MEDIA!
Mighty Mouse
Active member
The international community? Please! We've heard from Germany and the like. I'm surprised some nut job terrorist web site hasn't claimed credit for this misery yet. As the President said we appreciate the offers but will take care of this ourselves and New Orleans will rise up again.
It certainly wouldn't have take much sensitivity and forethought for the media vehicles to carry some water and/or food for the victims. I just saw a typical incident on TV just a minute ago. The media van drove up to a victim and his family and got out of the van with a camera and mic to get a story. The next shot was the same reporter stopping the van only to get out and try to off a dog some water! What kind of priorities are those? The negative story first and everyone and everything else be damned? If they must only film, where are the films of the heroes giving out the food and water? Where are the pictures of those people who are crawling through the debris to dig victims out? Rest assured, those stories are out there but apparently not newsworthy.
There is no defense for this kind of insensitive nonsense. This is not a time for politics and finger pointing it is a time for compassion and aid.
It certainly wouldn't have take much sensitivity and forethought for the media vehicles to carry some water and/or food for the victims. I just saw a typical incident on TV just a minute ago. The media van drove up to a victim and his family and got out of the van with a camera and mic to get a story. The next shot was the same reporter stopping the van only to get out and try to off a dog some water! What kind of priorities are those? The negative story first and everyone and everything else be damned? If they must only film, where are the films of the heroes giving out the food and water? Where are the pictures of those people who are crawling through the debris to dig victims out? Rest assured, those stories are out there but apparently not newsworthy.
There is no defense for this kind of insensitive nonsense. This is not a time for politics and finger pointing it is a time for compassion and aid.
mzspaztastic
Active member
every once in a while i reporter gets some decent information, and that is supposed to counteract the fact that they would rather get their story than be helpful. but putting down the camera and helping, they would be joining the ranks of so many others, but as a reporter, they can have the glory of getting that picture, or that good interview. of course an award at a convention later on down the road, or having the best live shots is more important.
i agree that reporters are important in giving out information. but a large portion of the media attention in a huge national disaster is focused on criticism of the relief efforts and that people are dying, so it's pretty hypocritical to video tape and not do anything to help. pick a side. either own up that your career is more important than helping, or put down the camera to help. you can't have it both ways.
i agree that reporters are important in giving out information. but a large portion of the media attention in a huge national disaster is focused on criticism of the relief efforts and that people are dying, so it's pretty hypocritical to video tape and not do anything to help. pick a side. either own up that your career is more important than helping, or put down the camera to help. you can't have it both ways.
SwordFish_13
Active member
Mod edit: Rule 12. Do NOT post images (or links to images/movies) of extreme graphic nature (murders/death etc.) If you are in doubt about the image/movie, PM one of the forum staff first.
Hi,
Warning Some Images can be Very Very Very Very VERY Disturbing
Aid Effort gather pace
The evacuation of the Superdrome stadium - where tens of thousands sought refuge from Katrina - is not expected to be completed until Sunday. Some 2,000 people remain there - but the situation is now reported to be calm after reports of rape and general lawlessness.
Evacuees at New Orleans' convention centre run to the helicopters that will take them out of the hurricane-stricken city, as the rescue effort is stepped up after days of chaos and despair.
Many of those being assisted by National Guardsmen at the centre are in very poor condition. Some have been languishing in hospitals with no power, water or vital medicines.
Mod edtit: This image removed. See Rule 12
As security forces focus on those who survived Monday's hurricane and the subsequent flooding, dead bodies can be seen floating on the streets. It is still not known how many people have died in this Louisiana city
Military convoys arrive in New Orleans to tackle the lawlessness which has gripped the city, and to distribute desperately needed water and food.
Tens of thousands of people remain stranded in the city - most of them from the poorer, African-American areas. Some of them have made their way onto the highway, in the hope that one of the buses leaving the city will stop for them.
Others have not even been able to get off the rooftops, where they have spent days waiting to be rescued by a helicopter or a boat.
Security and emergency forces have also had to deal with fires in the city. Huge blasts at a chemical plant near the famous French Quarter rocked part of the city. Officials believe some of the fires are being started intentionally by looters.
Peace
-=SF_13=-
Hi,
Warning Some Images can be Very Very Very Very VERY Disturbing
Aid Effort gather pace
The evacuation of the Superdrome stadium - where tens of thousands sought refuge from Katrina - is not expected to be completed until Sunday. Some 2,000 people remain there - but the situation is now reported to be calm after reports of rape and general lawlessness.
Evacuees at New Orleans' convention centre run to the helicopters that will take them out of the hurricane-stricken city, as the rescue effort is stepped up after days of chaos and despair.
Many of those being assisted by National Guardsmen at the centre are in very poor condition. Some have been languishing in hospitals with no power, water or vital medicines.
Mod edtit: This image removed. See Rule 12
As security forces focus on those who survived Monday's hurricane and the subsequent flooding, dead bodies can be seen floating on the streets. It is still not known how many people have died in this Louisiana city
Military convoys arrive in New Orleans to tackle the lawlessness which has gripped the city, and to distribute desperately needed water and food.
Tens of thousands of people remain stranded in the city - most of them from the poorer, African-American areas. Some of them have made their way onto the highway, in the hope that one of the buses leaving the city will stop for them.
Others have not even been able to get off the rooftops, where they have spent days waiting to be rescued by a helicopter or a boat.
Security and emergency forces have also had to deal with fires in the city. Huge blasts at a chemical plant near the famous French Quarter rocked part of the city. Officials believe some of the fires are being started intentionally by looters.
Peace
-=SF_13=-
Missileer
Active member
I just heard one of the City officials asked why the National Guard and FEMA trucks and buses weren't there before the storm. His answer was a simple "because we didn't need more flooded trucks and buses and probably more dead bodies. They got here when the winds died down to an acceptable speed." He described the job as trying to save lives during the tsunami instead of after. This area is larger than a lot of countries.
Mighty Mouse said:
as one of my friends said the other day....i wonder when bush will declare a war on weather.
yes the international community...many countries who have been bagged by your own for not helping in the war on terror, that have been told "you're either with us or with the terrorists"....have offered help.
this posted on the first page of this thread;
SwordFish_13 said:
Mighty Mouse
Active member
Admin edit: Be carefull with the country bashing! Consider this a warning!
i didn't say they definatly would get killed....and you missed my point besides...the media is more use and more help getting information out to the wider public than conducting rescue/relief operations that they are poorly equiped and completely untrained for.
as for the NG being active before the hurricane arrived....i wasn't talking about relief....i was talking about eveacuating the city. officials had already asked people to evacuate....but this of course relied on everyone having access to vehicles....so why weren't truck and bus convoys orginised for those who couldn't leave? at best a gross oversite IMHO.
yes i realise the disaster zone is bigger than britian (and as an extension bigger than my own country)
and what arrogant pig headedness to turn away offers for help....people are dieing because you're turning away help....god knows why.
and mighty mouse, there is plenty going on in this "no nuke paradise". it's an election year but what you fail to realise is that New Orleans and the hurricane is the biggest new story around....and i consider myself a world citizen. and i also work in the media...lets just say that US media outlets do things differently to other country media.
when it comes down to it i am as shocked at the loss of life and the sheer scale of the horror as i was on boxing day or 9/11. mistakes are being made and if people dont recognise for what they are, then those mistakes are going to be repeated.
as for the NG being active before the hurricane arrived....i wasn't talking about relief....i was talking about eveacuating the city. officials had already asked people to evacuate....but this of course relied on everyone having access to vehicles....so why weren't truck and bus convoys orginised for those who couldn't leave? at best a gross oversite IMHO.
yes i realise the disaster zone is bigger than britian (and as an extension bigger than my own country)
and what arrogant pig headedness to turn away offers for help....people are dieing because you're turning away help....god knows why.
and mighty mouse, there is plenty going on in this "no nuke paradise". it's an election year but what you fail to realise is that New Orleans and the hurricane is the biggest new story around....and i consider myself a world citizen. and i also work in the media...lets just say that US media outlets do things differently to other country media.
when it comes down to it i am as shocked at the loss of life and the sheer scale of the horror as i was on boxing day or 9/11. mistakes are being made and if people dont recognise for what they are, then those mistakes are going to be repeated.
