If doctors feel themselves capable of deciding when life ends (heartbeat, brain activity, sensitivity to stimulus, etc), why can't they use that same criteria to determine when life begins?

Originally Posted by 1217

You think that's a good idea? I agree with you on the counts of people being responsible for staying on the pill, using condoms etc, but I don't think some people should have the right to tell others what to do and what not to do because of their personal beliefs. What you believe is your business, but I wish people judging as quick and unsubtle as you would either take the time to think over all possibilities, or at least see that they don't have the entire picture. As I said before, NO-ONE USES ABORTION AS BIRTH CONTROL! That's bs. Having an abortion is something that traumatizes the persons involved a lot. If anyone is capable of having a child removed without any difficulty, the child is better off anyway.

And we will.

"And Catholicism is only advocated by Catholics" - 1217 8)

I disagree about women using abortion as birth control, obviously you do know every woman on this planet or you're just in denial. I think I'll go with both of them. A friend in school, well her friend, uses abortion as birth control.

Some people just don't have ONE abortion, they have multiple.

Don't you feel sad for that discarded human, that's going to be taken out with the Tuesday morning garbage truck?
You obviously cannot deal with the consequences of having sex and unprotected sex at that. You rather abort than paying the price. Children are wonderful! May I remind you - that you were once a child yourself and your mother could have aborted you.

Maybe you would feel different if she had. Of course you would be DEAD!

Now I find your quote by whoever it was said by, to be offensive of MY religion and the religion of a billion people worldwide. I'm sure you can only advocate your religion and I will not stoop so low to say such a negative thing.

Ugh.

There has been studies saying that women suffer because of abortions. Sometimes they have so many, they can't have a child when they finally are knocked to their senses.

Facts about the Human Fetus

Maybe you should read it. Talk to people who have had an abortion. There will be a few who think that it was the greatest thing ever to happen to them but there are a lot who think different.

Just remember next time a woman gets abortion they could be aborting the human being that could cure cancer, AIDs, hell even bring world peace. Just think about that.

Isn't it ironic that the methods for abortion (saline injection/scalding, dismemberment, etc) are okay with some folks, but are completely unacceptable if we did it to animals in a slaughter house?

You're telling me we have to treat a calf more humanely than an unborn child?

Brave new world, indeed.

They kill cows like this.
(they kill hogs, horses, sheep, goats, the same way)

1- They shock it with a high voltage taser.
2- It's knocked out, but still alive.
3- They shoot it.
4- It dies.
5- They slit it's throat. (too make sure its dead)
6- It gets processed, into the meat we all love.

I dont know how they kill babies, but I do know how they kill cows.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

I disagree about women using abortion as birth control, obviously you do know every woman on this planet or you're just in denial. I think I'll go with both of them. A friend in school, well her friend, uses abortion as birth control.

NOw that's proof. Find one human being that does something for the wrong reasons and tell the rest of the world they're not allowed to do that anymore.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Some people just don't have ONE abortion, they have multiple.

some people do, but others don't.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Don't you feel sad for that discarded human, that's going to be taken out with the Tuesday morning garbage truck?

Nice picture you're painting there, but that's not the way it works.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

You obviously cannot deal with the consequences of having sex and unprotected sex at that.

That's not the point I think. You could ruin a 16 year old's life over one mistake, and giving a child up for adoption is not that good for the child either.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

You rather abort than paying the price.

I was never talking about me personally, I'm just trying to say that everyone should have the right to decide for themselves. And I still think that an abortion is paying the price.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Children are wonderful! May I remind you - that you were once a child yourself and your mother could have aborted you.

Maybe you would feel different if she had. Of course you would be DEAD!

And you, being a catholic believing that I would have been alive, having a soul, being murdered and gone to heaven think I would rather have this discussion with you right now than being in heaven?

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Now I find your quote by whoever it was said by, to be offensive of MY religion and the religion of a billion people worldwide. I'm sure you can only advocate your religion and I will not stoop so low to say such a negative thing.

Now you're talking for a billion people? cool. But look at my quote again. first, it say's who's quote it is, it's my own, I made it up. secondly, it has a smiley accompanying it. And finally, there's really nothing insulting about it, it's just true. I never met a non catholic to advocate being a catholic! have you?

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Ugh.

There has been studies saying that women suffer because of abortions. Sometimes they have so many, they can't have a child when they finally are knocked to their senses.

Now if you think these people are as crazy as you seem to think they are, how come you think that it's bad that they 'll never get to raise a child?

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Facts about the Human Fetus

Maybe you should read it. Talk to people who have had an abortion. There will be a few who think that it was the greatest thing ever to happen to them but there are a lot who think different.

I've talked to them, talking to people with a traumtizing experience is part of my education and work.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Just remember next time a woman gets abortion they could be aborting the human being that could cure cancer, AIDs, hell even bring world peace. Just think about that.

I thought about it, and realized that that could the the case, but they also could've been the next Adolf Hitler. Now I don't think abortion should be used lightly, but claiming it to be altogether wrong, that's not very open minded.

Oh and BTW, I don't think the Pope agrees with you on the "safe sex" point of view. As far as I know he actually still thinks that the way to go is only having sex to generate offspring.

The only safe sex is NO sex. I believe that sex should between a married couple, man and woman, to produce offspring. Not to kill it.



We have to change our menu (food) to accomidate the tastes of those who dislike meat, yet we frown upon those who are Pro-Life. Immature.

Listen, remember most sects of the Christian religion were once Catholic. Oh yes. It was true. Lutherans were once apart of our religion. I will be quick to even advocate Islam is need be. The whole fundamental right of choosing to be pro-life is a moral one. The only abortion I'm for is the one where people take other people's lives. You kill someone. You go. You're a terrorist, you go.

Let's abort the murderers, who are crowding up our jails around the world.

It's something for you to prounce on my religion, where the strongest and conversative Catholics, or even some Liberal Catholics are Pro-Life.

You live in a very closed world. Abortion hurts a lot of folks. But if you want to keep on thinking that it doesn't -- that's fine. That's your right. However this is my view, and the only one who is attacking one of another, is us.

You aren't attacking Airborne Eagle or anyone else, but you are attacking my belief. My moral belief.

I know I'm right, and I know you're wrong.

But if you're pro-choice or pro-abortion and I'm pro-life, we will NEVER agree to anything. NADA. So let's drop the façade, you will never get me to agree on any of your points, no matter how sane they might be.

Now go attack someone else.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

The only safe sex is NO sex. I believe that sex should between a married couple, man and woman, to produce offspring. Not to kill it.

As I said before, you can believe anything you want, that's fine with me, but I don't think you should tell other people how to behave and what to do.

Originally Posted by jen.parabellum

Now go attack someone else.

I never meant to attack you. But I wonder what you're trying to do with that sentence......

"I don't think you should tell other people how to behave and what to do." - 1217

Even if what theyre doing is wrong. So if someone wants too shoot up a school (or kill a baby) you can't tell them not to, becuz they can behave how they want?

Thats messed up, do you have any morales at all?

I actually think that if you lived in America you would think differently.

Talk all you want, the point is getting rid (killing) of something you dont want (baby) is wrong, and disgusting. And what does the Pope have to do with this? Hes better than you'll ever be, so get off his back.

You my friend, just got nerd tossed...

Originally Posted by ACTaFOOL82

"I don't think you should tell other people how to behave and what to do." - 1217

Even if what theyre doing is wrong. So if someone wants too shoot up a school (or kill a baby) you can't tell them not to, becuz they can behave how they want?

No, that's not what I meant. Shooting up a school is a different leage. That's legally murder in any country. There's a post here by marc somewhere that explains the "legal" part. What I mean is that if there's two different opinions in the world (and there are more then two opinions on this subject in the world) people shouldn't tell other people "I'm right and you're wrong" like the way jen.parabellum does. I'm not telling anyone that their point of view is wrong. But she is telling me what to think, and that's what I don't agree with. You can have a different opinion from someone else's, but still respect other's opinion. Now I've said before, abortion shouldn't be used lightly.

Originally Posted by ACTaFOOL82

Thats messed up, do you have any morales at all?

actually I have loads of them. They're just not always exactly the same as yours....

Originally Posted by ACTaFOOL82

I actually think that if you lived in America you would think differently.

Maybe, but no offence, I like my own country better. (exept maybe for the weather)But that's an other thing we'll probably never see eye to eye on.

Originally Posted by ACTaFOOL82

Talk all you want, the point is getting rid (killing) of something you dont want (baby) is wrong, and disgusting. And what does the Pope have to do with this? Hes better than you'll ever be, so get off his back.

I'm not on his back. Never was and never will be. Calm down kiddo. I have nothing against the Pope. What I said was that jen.parabellum gives alternatives for abortion, like the pill and condoms, but the church doesn't allow that either.

Originally Posted by ACTaFOOL82

You my friend, just got nerd tossed...

Not sure what you mean by the last part but thanks, I guess.....

Now my stance is a little tricky. Im Catholic, and before anyone starts crackin jokes lets remember this is a serious subject. If it ever came down to it and it was my choice in my relationship i would say no to abortion but i will not impose my beleifs on other people. I mean say the woman is mentally retarded or has some afull disease or somthing She she and the child have to suffer just because of my opinon. not in my book.