9th Grader Dies After Being Shot In Back Of Head

[senojekips]

Really? Who's the idiot? the one who thinks that passing one more gun law will make criminals obey?

I't's not just a matter of one more law, it's a matter of passing a law that is able to be administered and has some teeth.

We will always have law breakers, but the idea is to minimise their chances rather than to stop them. Laws that make it possible to effectively punish those who neglect to keep firearms out of the hands of minors and unlicensed or unfit persons etc.

Using your analogy we may as well revert to total anarchy, then there would be no law breakers nor persons in prison, it would really simplify things.

Freedom is great, but the freedom to gratuitously kill one another is not one of those freedoms we fight for.

 

[MontyB]

Really? Who's the idiot? the one who thinks that passing one more gun law will make criminals obey? There's over 20,000 Laws on the books, yet crime continues. It's already illegal to murder, shouldn't that Law be enough? England imposed tough gun bans & crime is rising, the same Laws didn't do much good in N. Ireland. Why do you think they will here?

Really?

Crime statistics for England and Wales say other wise...

Provisional data show the police recorded 648 incidents of homicide in
2008/09, the lowest recorded level in the last 20 years. The number of
attempted murders also decreased from 621 in 2007/08 to 575 in 2008/09.
Weapons were used in about one in five (21%) of BCS violent crimes (this
figure has been stable over the past decade); knives were used in 7%,
glasses or bottles in 5%, hitting implements in 4% and firearms in 1% of
incidents. Between 2007/08 and 2008/09 BCS interviews, the use of knives
and glasses or bottles has remained stable while the use of hitting implements
has decreased.
The number of police recorded offences involving firearms fell by 17%
between 2007/08 and 2008/09. Firearm offences resulting in injury also fell
(down by 46% in 2008/09) due to a large reduction in the use of imitation
weapons (down 41%) and a corresponding fall in slight injuries. There was a
small rise in the use of shotguns and handguns (both up 2%).
There was a fall in the number of homicide offences involving a knife or other
sharp instrument (down from 270 to 252) between 2007/08 and 2008/09 but a
rise in the number of attempted murders involving a knife (up from 245 to 271
offences). Robbery offences involving knives decreased slightly (from 17,058
to 16,701) in the same period.

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/rds/pdfs09/hosb1109summ.pdf

 

[Rob Henderson]

I think that laws that are way over 300 years old still apply. Like for murder, rape, and stealing. It is to bad the younger generation like you, don't think they should apply just because they are old.:lol:

So mmarsh is considered the "younger" generation? I'm sure he's flattered. Chukpike... 300 years ago, blacks were considered sub-human beings. 300 years ago, women were property, not people. Do you also believe that THOSE laws should apply? Point being that times change, and just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it's perfect. It was written by men, just like the men who live today. It's not a divine document (although some may THINK it is).

Edit:
To answer with requested source:

A living document or dynamic document is a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group. A simple example of a living document is an article in Wikipedia, in contrast to "dead" or "static" documents, such as an article in a single edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica.
A living document may or may not have a framework for updates, changes, or adjustments. This type of document without proper context can change away from its original purpose through multiple uncontrolled edits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_document

So, first of all, you're using Wikipedia as a source. (LMAO)

Secondly... BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, a living document is "a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group." So... The document is the Constitution, and the limited group that may edit it is Congress.


The Constitution IS a living document! Thank you for proving my point! I'm glad you've seen the light!

Really? Who's the idiot? the one who thinks that passing one more gun law will make criminals obey? There's over 20,000 Laws on the books, yet crime continues. It's already illegal to murder, shouldn't that Law be enough? England imposed tough gun bans & crime is rising, the same Laws didn't do much good in N. Ireland. Why do you think they will here?

No. The people who think giving everyone and their mother a gun will make crime go away. They are living in a fantasy world. George, if anyone on this forum made a reference to another country in another debate, they'd be grilled for it. Northern Ireland is NOT the United States. There are so many differences, we'd have to start a new sub-forum to discuss them all. But that's neither here nor there.

I'm not asking for tougher penalties on those who commit crimes with guns, I'm asking for stricter guidelines that one must follow to OBTAIN a gun in the first place. It is far too easy for a person to get a hold of an item specifically made for killing efficiently.

1. Mandatory updated certification saying that the gun owner is actively keeping himself or herself trained in firearm safety and ownership.
2. Proof that any firearms are sufficiently protected. I'm not asking for a 6 digit, fireproof safe in the floor, but at LEAST have some kind of lock on the night stand that holds your pistol.
3. Background checks (EXTENSIVE) and updated mental health screenings. Crazy people aren't always crazy, sometimes a perfectly sane person might be able to purchase a weapon, become distraught for some reason, and use his or her weapon outside it's intentions.
4. Get RID of the gun show loophole. No one needs fully automatic weapons for ANYTHING. I don't care how big of a gun collector you are.

Now, these are very, VERY basic ideas, but they're pretty much what I think about what needs to be improved.

 

[George]

So mmarsh is considered the "younger" generation? I'm sure he's flattered. Chukpike... 300 years ago, blacks were considered sub-human beings. 300 years ago, women were property, not people. Do you also believe that THOSE laws should apply? Point being that times change, and just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it's perfect. It was written by men, just like the men who live today. It's not a divine document (although some may THINK it is).

So, first of all, you're using Wikipedia as a source. (LMAO)

Secondly... BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, a living document is "a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group." So... The document is the Constitution, and the limited group that may edit it is Congress.


The Constitution IS a living document! Thank you for proving my point! I'm glad you've seen the light!

No. The people who think giving everyone and their mother a gun will make crime go away. They are living in a fantasy world. George, if anyone on this forum made a reference to another country in another debate, they'd be grilled for it. Northern Ireland is NOT the United States. There are so many differences, we'd have to start a new sub-forum to discuss them all. But that's neither here nor there.

I'm not asking for tougher penalties on those who commit crimes with guns, I'm asking for stricter guidelines that one must follow to OBTAIN a gun in the first place. It is far too easy for a person to get a hold of an item specifically made for killing efficiently.

1. Mandatory updated certification saying that the gun owner is actively keeping himself or herself trained in firearm safety and ownership.
2. Proof that any firearms are sufficiently protected. I'm not asking for a 6 digit, fireproof safe in the floor, but at LEAST have some kind of lock on the night stand that holds your pistol.
3. Background checks (EXTENSIVE) and updated mental health screenings. Crazy people aren't always crazy, sometimes a perfectly sane person might be able to purchase a weapon, become distraught for some reason, and use his or her weapon outside it's intentions.
4. Get RID of the gun show loophole. No one needs fully automatic weapons for ANYTHING. I don't care how big of a gun collector you are.

Now, these are very, VERY basic ideas, but they're pretty much what I think about what needs to be improved.

Fla. used to have "May issue" CCW. It was @ the discretion of the Sheriff of each County & a lot depended on the individual Sheriff's view of guns. Fla went to "Shall issue" CCW & crime has dropped.
What gun show loophole, it doesn't exist. All gun laws are in effect @ gun shows.
Full auto weopans No crime has been commited by the registered owner of one. One gun shop owner defended his shop with an M-16 against a gang of intruders & probably wouldn't have been as sucsessfull w/o one. Also the Federal Militia Act of 1790 requires all males of military age to own the same long arm as the army has, that would seem to be selective fire.
I see England was having a problem with people getting cut up with broken beer mugs, so they now have shatterproof mugs that can be used to beat someone to death.

 

[MontyB]

Fla. used to have "May issue" CCW. It was @ the discretion of the Sheriff of each County & a lot depended on the individual Sheriff's view of guns. Fla went to "Shall issue" CCW & crime has dropped.

Umm this isn't entirely accurate either, crime peaked between 1990 and 1998 but it has been stable since then at roughly 10 times what it was in 1960 however during this period the population increased from 5 million to 18.3 million so doesn't that equate to a crime rate 2.5-3 times higher per capita than it was 50 years previous?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

 

[George]

Umm this isn't entirely accurate either, crime peaked between 1990 and 1998 but it has been stable since then at roughly 10 times what it was in 1960 however during this period the population increased from 5 million to 18.3 million so doesn't that equate to a crime rate 2.5-3 times higher per capita than it was 50 years previous?

http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/flcrime.htm

linky Seems to be a drop per capita from what I see on your chart

 

[Rob Henderson]

"In the year 2000 Florida had an estimated population of 15,982,378 which ranked the state 4th in population. For that year the State of Florida had a total Crime Index of 5,694.7 reported incidents per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 2nd highest total Crime Index. For Violent Crime Florida had a reported incident rate of 812.0 per 100,000 people. This ranked the state as having the 1st highest occurrence for Violent Crime among the states."

 

[Spaniard]

Your argument is somewhat too linear to hold up I am afraid, you are arguing the same half truth that the NRA keep pushing out ie: Guns don't kill people people kill people; the problem is that this holds true for everything that requires a human trigger ie: nuclear bombs don't kill people, people kill people, axes don't kill people, people kill people et. etc.

Therefore the problem with your argument is that using this logic nuclear bombs are perfectly safe in public hands and I am sure you would not advocate that.

The simple reality is that as something becomes more dangerous to the general public you need to start placing safeguards on how those items enter the public domain.

We license/certify drivers, pilots, ships officers to reduce the possibility that crazy bastards don't start using cars, planes, trains or boats as weapons and to ensure as much as possible that the users are competent. Why should a gun be any different?

Ok "Monty" For the sake of argument. Say we remove all The Guns from the World. NO More.

You think individuals wont be using other forms of weapons to kill each other?? and the murder rate will still be the same.
Heck might even get Bad they'll be blowing each other up.

Look with dental floss you can decapitate, That stuff is sharp!

 

[Rob Henderson]

Guns were created for the specific purpose of killing. It would have been IMPOSSIBLE for Columbine to happen with dental floss. They would've been stopped. It would've been IMPOSSIBLE for VA Tech to happen. He would've been taken down much sooner if he only had a knife. The point is, guns are effective at killing. Knives, forks, spoons, and dental floss are NOT. Therefore, the murder rate would be FAR!!!!! lower.


Unfortunately, we can't remove ALL guns from the world, so we have to make do with what we've got.

 

[senojekips]

Ok "Monty" For the sake of argument. Say we remove all The Guns from the World. NO More.

You think individuals wont be using other forms of weapons to kill each other?? and the murder rate will still be the same.
Heck might even get Bad they'll be blowing each other up.

Look with dental floss you can decapitate, That stuff is sharp!

Yep, and I have a 30 shot fully automatic housebrick that I can kill with at 300 yards time after time.

Your argument is somewhat specious at best. Anyone can point out ridiculous extremes of any argument, but I would think that what we need is a sensible and practical "middle ground" solution. The real trouble here is that so many don't want a solution. So long as it is not their child, father or friend killed, their "right" to commit mayhem and murder, if they should want, is too dear to them.

Virtually every other civilised country in the world does not give it's citizens the right to carry firearms as they go about their daily business, and they see no need except with very minor exceptions. They also have a much lower rate of firearms related crime.

 

[Rob Henderson]

Well put, Spike. There's no connection to the tragedies that happen until their child goes off to school and doesn't come back one day.

 

[MontyB]

Ok "Monty" For the sake of argument. Say we remove all The Guns from the World. NO More.

You think individuals wont be using other forms of weapons to kill each other?? and the murder rate will still be the same.
Heck might even get Bad they'll be blowing each other up.

Look with dental floss you can decapitate, That stuff is sharp!

Why are we getting rid of guns?

I don't think anyone has advocated that option yet so calm down, the all or nothing approach wont get you anywhere.

I collect guns in a country with strict gun control laws I seriously doubt you will convince anyone that I am pro-gun ban.

However I like most thinking people understand that you can not bury your head in the sand and pretend that guns play no part in shootings.

Anyway perhaps we can refocus the thread a bit, what is your answer to the following information?
Feb. 2, 1996
Moses Lake, Wash. Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.
March 13, 1996
Dunblane, Scotland 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.
Feb. 19, 1997
Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.
March 1997
Sanaa, Yemen Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.
Oct. 1, 1997
Pearl, Miss. Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.
Dec. 1, 1997
West Paducah, Ky. Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.
Dec. 15, 1997
Stamps, Ark. Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.
March 24, 1998
Jonesboro, Ark. Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.
April 24, 1998
Edinboro, Pa. One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.
May 19, 1998
Fayetteville, Tenn. One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.
May 21, 1998
Springfield, Ore. Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.
June 15, 1998
Richmond, Va. One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.
April 20, 1999
Littleton, Colo. 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School in the nation's deadliest school shooting. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.
April 28, 1999
Taber, Alberta, Canada One student killed, one wounded at W. R. Myers High School in first fatal high school shooting in Canada in 20 years. The suspect, a 14-year-old boy, had dropped out of school after he was severely ostracized by his classmates.
May 20, 1999
Conyers, Ga. Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.
Nov. 19, 1999
Deming, N.M. Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.
Dec. 6, 1999
Fort Gibson, Okla. Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.
Dec. 7, 1999
Veghel, Netherlands One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.
Feb. 29, 2000
Mount Morris Township, Mich. Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.
March 2000
Branneburg, Germany One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.
March 10, 2000
Savannah, Ga. Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.
May 26, 2000
Lake Worth, Fla. One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.
Sept. 26, 2000
New Orleans, La. Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.
Jan. 17, 2001
Baltimore, Md. One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.
Jan. 18, 2001
Jan, Sweden One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.
March 5, 2001
Santee, Calif. Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.
March 7, 2001
Williamsport, Pa. Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.
March 22, 2001
Granite Hills, Calif. One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.
March 30, 2001
Gary, Ind. One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.
Nov. 12, 2001
Caro, Mich. Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.
Jan. 15, 2002
New York, N.Y. A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.
Feb. 19, 2002
Freising, Germany Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.
April 26, 2002
Erfurt, Germany 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.
April 29, 2002
Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.
October 28, 2002
Tucson, Ariz. Robert S. Flores Jr., 41, a student at the nursing school at the University of Arizona, shot and killed three female professors and then himself.
April 14, 2003
New Orleans, La. One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.
April 24, 2003
Red Lion, Pa. James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.
Sept. 24, 2003
Cold Spring, Minn. Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15.
Sept. 28, 2004
Carmen de Patagones, Argentina Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentininan student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.
March 21, 2005
Red Lake, Minn. Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.
Nov. 8, 2005
Jacksboro, Tenn. One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.
Aug. 24, 2006
Essex, Vt. Christopher Williams, 27, looking for his ex-girlfriend at Essex Elementary School, shot two teachers, killing one and wounding another. Before going to the school, he had killed the ex-girlfriend's mother.
Sept. 13, 2006
Montreal, Canada Kimveer Gill, 25, opened fire with a semiautomatic weapon at Dawson College. Anastasia De Sousa, 18, died and more than a dozen students and faculty were wounded before Gill killed himself.
Sept. 27, 2006
Bailey, Colo. Adult male held six students hostage at Platte Canyon High School and then shot and killed Emily Keyes, 16, and himself.
Sept. 29, 2006
Cazenovia, Wis. A 15-year-old student shot and killed Weston School principal John Klang.
Oct. 3, 2006
Nickel Mines, Pa. 32-year-old Carl Charles Roberts IV entered the one-room West Nickel Mines Amish School and shot 10 schoolgirls, ranging in age from 6 to 13 years old, and then himself. Five of the girls and Roberts died.

 

[MontyB]

Jan. 3, 2007
Tacoma, Wash. Douglas Chanthabouly, 18, shot fellow student Samnang Kok, 17, in the hallway of Henry Foss High School.
April 16, 2007
Blacksburg, Va. A 23-year-old Virginia Tech student, Cho Seung-Hui, killed two in a dorm, then killed 30 more 2 hours later in a classroom building. His suicide brought the death toll to 33, making the shooting rampage the most deadly in U.S. history. Fifteen others were wounded.
Sept. 21, 2007
Dover, Del. A Delaware State Univesity Freshman, Loyer D. Brandon, shot and wounded two other Freshman students on the University campus. Brandon is being charged with attempted murder, assault, reckless engagement, as well as a gun charge.
Oct. 10, 2007
Cleveland, Ohio A 14-year-old student at a Cleveland high school, Asa H. Coon, shot and injured two students and two teachers before he shot and killed himself. The victims' injuries were not life-threatening.
Nov. 7, 2007
Tuusula, Finland An 18-year-old student in southern Finland shot and killed five boys, two girls, and the female principal at Jokela High School. At least 10 others were injured. The gunman shot himself and died from his wounds in the hospital.
Feb. 8, 2008
Baton Rouge, Louisiana A nursing student shot and killed two women and then herself in a classroom at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge.
Feb. 11, 2008
Memphis, Tennessee A 17-year-old student at Mitchell High School shot and wounded a classmate in gym class.
Feb. 12, 2008
Oxnard, California A 14-year-old boy shot a student at E.O. Green Junior High School causing the 15-year-old victim to be brain dead.
Feb. 14, 2008
DeKalb, Illinois Gunman killed five students and then himself, and wounded 17 more when he opened fire on a classroom at Northern Illinois University. The gunman, Stephen P. Kazmierczak, was identified as a former graduate student at the university in 2007.
Sept. 23, 2008
Kauhajoki, Finland A 20-year-old male student shot and killed at least nine students and himself at a vocational college in Kauhajok, 330km (205 miles) north of the capital, Helsinki.
Nov. 12, 2008
Fort Lauderdale, Florida A 15-year-old female student was shot and killed by a classmate at at Dillard High School in Fort Lauderdale.
March 11, 2009
Winnenden, Germany Fifteen people were shot and killed at Albertville Technical High School in southwestern Germany by a 17-year-old boy who attended the same school.

 

[George]

The Pearl, Miss incident was stopped by an armed administrator who today would be defenceless because of the Gun Free School zone nonsence. The fact is an a practical basis the number of people killed is not major compared to leaving 350 million Americans defenceless. Sure the number should be zero, but we have revolving door justice, kids that are taught moral relitivism if any moral instruction at all, records that are erased @ 18, 10 Commandments banned by religious cleansing, video games & movies that focus on body counts. Guns have been around a long time but school shootings are a relativly new thing.

 

[Chukpike]

So mmarsh is considered the "younger" generation? I'm sure he's flattered. Chukpike... 300 years ago, blacks were considered sub-human beings. 300 years ago, women were property, not people. Do you also believe that THOSE laws should apply? Point being that times change, and just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it's perfect. It was written by men, just like the men who live today. It's not a divine document (although some may THINK it is).

You are the posterchild for why the Constitution should not be considered a "living document". You constantly "read into" other's posts your own exotic interpretation.

Can anyone find where I have refered to mmarsh in answering Rob's statement?

"Unfortunately, the United States is full of people who think like you, and think that the laws that applied 300 years ago still apply today." quote Rob

Can anyone show me were I have ever stated the Constitution is perfect or Divine?

I have stated that it can be changed by amendment.
"If the constitution needs to change there is a mechanism to change it. It is called amending it. What a concept!" quote chukpike

So, first of all, you're using Wikipedia as a source. (LMAO)

Secondly... BY YOUR OWN DEFINITION, a living document is "a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group." So... The document is the Constitution, and the limited group that may edit it is Congress.


The Constitution IS a living document! Thank you for proving my point! I'm glad you've seen the light!

I used the simplest definition I could find since so many have pointed out the poor quality of education in the US and you are fresh out of High School. I thought that you might be able to comprehend it, unfortunately I was wrong.

First it is not my definition it is Wikipedias.
Also. I supplied the definition. I did not prove that the Constitution should be considered a living document.

As it states:
"a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group."
To which you claim Congress can do. They could possibly, "continually edit or update" tell they were Blue IN The Face.
It would not matter since their editing would not become Law until ratified by 3/4 of the States.

Your lack of comprehension of what others Post is by far the best possible reason why the Constitution should not be considered a "living document.

You also conveniently ignored this statement:
"This type of document without proper context can change away from its original purpose through multiple uncontrolled edits."

So thanks for proving my point that considering the Constitution as a "living document" can be very dangerous.:thumb:

 

[senojekips]

The Pearl, Miss incident was stopped by an armed administrator who today would be defenceless because of the Gun Free School zone nonsence. The fact is an a practical basis the number of people killed is not major compared to leaving 350 million Americans defenceless. Sure the number should be zero, but we have revolving door justice, kids that are taught moral relitivism if any moral instruction at all, records that are erased @ 18, 10 Commandments banned by religious cleansing, video games & movies that focus on body counts. Guns have been around a long time but school shootings are a relativly new thing.

did you ever stop to think that this was one case in a hundred,... and had there have been decent firearms restrictions in place the administrator would probably never have needed to be armed in the first place?

I'm defenceless, and if what you say is true, I feel a damn sight more secure than you do, but then again, I live in a country where we don't have this wild west attitude to firearms where just anyone can get hold of them at the drop of a hat.

Don't get me wrong, I love military firearms and I miss some of the freedoms we once had, but that is the result of a knee jerk reaction by a politician to appease the anti gun lobby. The way your country is headed, that is exactly what will happen to US gun owners one day.

Don't bother spouting about your second amendment rights, as amendments can be re amended at a moments notice if the need is there, and there is little doubt that the need is there as evidenced by Monty's list.

We've just gone through the argy bargy about your Constitution being a living document. It is not cast in stone.

 

[Rob Henderson]

You are the posterchild for why the Constitution should not be considered a "living document". You constantly "read into" other's posts your own exotic interpretation.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think there are many music majors in Congress or leading state governments. I'm willing to bet I could count them on one hand. So, to bring that down to YOUR level, I'm saying that I would not be among the people who would interpret the Constitution if need arose.

Can anyone find where I have refered to mmarsh in answering Rob's statement?
"Unfortunately, the United States is full of people who think like you, and think that the laws that applied 300 years ago still apply today." quote Rob

Can anyone show me were I have ever stated the Constitution is perfect or Divine?

It is not a static document that does not change. Therefore it is a living document, as the opposite of living is dead. I cannot break it down for your senile brain any further.

By the way, YOU conveniently ignored MY post about some OTHER laws that existed 300 years ago. So, how's that for "reading into" other's posts?

I have stated that it can be changed by amendment.
"If the constitution needs to change there is a mechanism to change it. It is called amending it. What a concept!" quote chukpike

So, if it can be changed, how is it not a living document? I'm curious.

I used the simplest definition I could find since so many have pointed out the poor quality of education in the US and you are fresh out of High School. I thought that you might be able to comprehend it, unfortunately I was wrong.

First it is not my definition it is Wikipedias.
Also. I supplied the definition. I did not prove that the Constitution should be considered a living document.

As it states:
"a document which may be continually edited and updated by either a limited or unrestricted group."
To which you claim Congress can do. They could possibly, "continually edit or update" tell they were Blue IN The Face.
It would not matter since their editing would not become Law until ratified by 3/4 of the States.

The definition you posted (therefore associating yourself with as a proper definition of the phrase) said that a living document can be edited by a limited or unrestricted group. The states would be included in that group. It doesn't matter how large the group is; what matters is the fact that it CAN be changed, and therefore falls under the definition of a living document. So, in short, YOU. ARE. WRONG. The Constitution IS a living document subject to interpretation. To amend is to change, and the Constitution can be amended. You've said so yourself, multiple times.

Your lack of comprehension of what others Post is by far the best possible reason why the Constitution should not be considered a "living document.

You also conveniently ignored this statement:
"This type of document without proper context can change away from its original purpose through multiple uncontrolled edits."

So thanks for proving my point that considering the Constitution as a "living document" can be very dangerous.:thumb:

To your only on topic statement in this section, I say that the editing would NOT be "uncontrolled." Not by a long shot. That's what the state majority is for, to make sure that Congress doesn't go crazy and just edit away, thus preserving it's original intentions.

So, thanks for proving my point that the Constitution IS a living document and that there is no way it could be considered otherwise. :thumb:


By the way, for someone with such poor grammar, you have a lot of nerve to attack my "just being out of high school."
LMAO

 

[MontyB]

The Pearl, Miss incident was stopped by an armed administrator who today would be defenceless because of the Gun Free School zone nonsence. The fact is an a practical basis the number of people killed is not major compared to leaving 350 million Americans defenceless. Sure the number should be zero, but we have revolving door justice, kids that are taught moral relitivism if any moral instruction at all, records that are erased @ 18, 10 Commandments banned by religious cleansing, video games & movies that focus on body counts. Guns have been around a long time but school shootings are a relativly new thing.

But you still haven't come up with any solution to the problem all you have done is defended "guns" and blamed society, I hate to break it to ya but almost every New Zealand kid grows up with video games, rarely if ever attends a church or has "moral" instruction and we are currently running at 0 school shoot outs, whats the difference?

We have a lot of guns for a small nation, we have probably the same number of crazy's per capita and I imagine Australia and most of the western world are very similar so why aren't we killing each other at the same rate proportionately?

 

[Chukpike]

But you still haven't come up with any solution to the problem all you have done is defended "guns" and blamed society, I hate to break it to ya but almost every New Zealand kid grows up with video games, rarely if ever attends a church or has "moral" instruction and we are currently running at 0 school shoot outs, whats the difference?

We have a lot of guns for a small nation, we have probably the same number of crazy's per capita and I imagine Australia and most of the western world are very similar so why aren't we killing each other at the same rate proportionately?

You might not have the gang problems that are occurring in the US either. Follow up news casts indicate there were ten kids at that school trying very hard to join a gang.

This may well have been some form of gang initiation. Both boys from the police reports were trying to join a gang and new each other.

 

[MontyB]

New Zealand has its share of gangs but ours are more into theft and drugs than killing, we are slowly developing anti-gang laws, I also think that while our gangs are still strong in the lower socioeconomic group they have pretty much been contained especially since there peak period in the early to mid-80s.