5.56 round inhumane?

JaegerWolf08

JaegerWolf08

Active member
I just read the a few years back a Swedish commision researched the US/NATO 5.56mm round and said that it is inhumane because it fragments when it hits the target. The commission recommended that US and NATO go to a Swedish 7.62mm round. After some trials it was found that the Swedish 7.62 also fragments upon impact, just at larger scale because of the increased round size.

Ain't that funny.
 
So which ammo does not fragment due the impact,any way the shot is a shot,you'r dead with or with out the fragments.
 
Not really, if the 5.56mm doesn't frag on impact. It's like getting shot with a .22 something which my friend has been shot with in the lower torso by accident. He fell down and screamed for a little bit, but he wasn't "incapacited". In a combat situation he would have definitly been able to keep shooting back.
 
Maybee a little bit on the way high velocity missile rounds wound is in order here:

that little round may resemble a 22 in size, but its effects are totally different. this round is a very high velocity round. It leaves the barrel at speeds higher than 3200 feet per second. so its going supersonic. Things that go supersonic are often accompined by a pressure wave, as the bullet pushes air ahead of it as it travels, just like an airplane. That distinctive crack as the bullet flys by you is in reality its sonic boom. since mass time velocity equals a whole lotta energy transferred to the subject, it really doesnt have to be big.


http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/wrong.html this data was produced in 1987. It delves into what some called misinformation about the round during the earlier time period.

http://www.aaos.org/wordhtml/anmt2001/sciexh/se11.htm this link is a little more modern, with a shorter more concise explanation of the actual wounding characteristics. they discovered that the temporary cavity was more destuctive than first thought, and were once again reccomending extreme debridment of the wound , to prevent gas gangrene from spreading.

enjoy.
 
For the 5.56 M193 and M855 to frag and produce a massive wound, they need impact velocities in excess of 2500 fps, and is only going to do it reliably above 2700 fps.

With extremely short barrels, the effective range for the frag effect with M855 5.56 can be as short as 15m.

Barrel length and ammo selection make a major impact on fragmentation range.
 
Not really, if the 5.56mm doesn't frag on impact. It's like getting shot with a .22 something which my friend has been shot with in the lower torso by accident. He fell down and screamed for a little bit, but he wasn't "incapacited". In a combat situation he would have definitly been able to keep shooting back.
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Even .22 can kill you,you can be lucky with .357 and survive
 
The problem with high velocity low caliber ammo is that it doesn't transfer energy efficiently to the target. That means it either goes right through you, or cuts you up real bad inside, but it takes a relatively long time to do it, so there is little shock value.
The other extreme is something like a .45 ACP, which is slow, but super heavy, and high caliber. When it hits, almost all of it's energy is transfered at once to the target, meaning massive localized damage. this produces shock symptoms faster and more reliably, and that's why it's a "stopper".
It's like the difference between being stabbed or hit with a baseball bat: Both will kill you, but one will knock you on your ass first.
 
One more thing i feel needs to be mentioned abot HVM 5.56 and tissue...when one of those bullets hit, as it enters it creates a very high zone of negative pressure behind it. This wake greatly disturbs the sorrounding tissue..creates a very large cavity, and even can break bones in passing.

You hit a person in the right place..they aint getting up.

You hit a person in another area that aint critical...well without proper wound treatment, gas gangrene forms in the cavitated area and you go bye bye...eventally. :shock:
 
as

As I said, getting shot is not a treat, no matter the cliber...You can onlytake this "humane" crap so far. As to the saying that the 5.56 is like a 0.22, well thats sort of true, but the 5.56 military rounds have a larger amount of powder pushing them, so really, they are much more leathal.
 
Jamoni said:
The problem with high velocity low caliber ammo is that it doesn't transfer energy efficiently to the target. That means it either goes right through you, or cuts you up real bad inside, but it takes a relatively long time to do it, so there is little shock value.
The other extreme is something like a .45 ACP, which is slow, but super heavy, and high caliber. When it hits, almost all of it's energy is transfered at once to the target, meaning massive localized damage. this produces shock symptoms faster and more reliably, and that's why it's a "stopper".
It's like the difference between being stabbed or hit with a baseball bat: Both will kill you, but one will knock you on your ass first.
Click to expand...

I may be wrong here, but the impact felt by a target would be no greater then the recoil of the gun. Most people that describe being shot find the actually impact no greater then a hard punch.
 
Kozzy Mozzy said:
I may be wrong here, but the impact felt by a target would be no greater then the recoil of the gun. Most people that describe being shot find the actually impact no greater then a hard punch.
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That may be true for small caliber (high velocity) bullets, but not .45 that Jamoni is talking about...
 
I don't know, Sir, one of my neihbours has a 12 gauge break action pistol that would do someone's business for them pretty regular. :lol:
 
Snauhi said:
5.45 is more dengures then 5.56 i think :?
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jaeger wolf:yep.it is true.some friends of mine who are in the army told me,that they tested ballistic vests, 5,56 penetrated unproperly front side of the vest and 5.45 penetrated the front side and back side too :lol:
 
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