45,000 die from lack of health care

You could say for those who starve to death in America that they have truly failed but as for health care... that's a slightly different story.
You can get by eating rather cheap food but if for any reason you're smacked with something that requires a lot of money in terms of health care, you're done. When you consider that even the "cheap" insurance that costs about a hundred bucks a month won't cover anything unless you've somehow randomly been hit with a life threatening injury or permanent disability... it's a hard choice. And because you're blowing that much money, you're less inclined to get treatment for illnesses while they are still mild and very treatable because that's money on top of the hundred bucks a month flying out the door.
It's a "system," if you can call it that, that is more like one of a 3rd world country. Other developed countries tend to have some kind of arrangement to keep their folks healthy.
 
This has been covered before. It drivel. They surveyed people over a number of years 86-94 if i recall right. They tallied up the number of people who answered they had no insurance @ the time of the interview & counted how many of them died. They assumed that the uninsured never did buy insurance & didn't determine who would have lived had they had insurance vs no insurance, just simply who died.
 
I am not sure how you draw these conclusions as they also publish their methodology and it doesn't mention anything like you claim other than the survey ran between 1986 and 1994.
 
I am not sure how you draw these conclusions as they also publish their methodology and it doesn't mention anything like you claim other than the survey ran between 1986 and 1994.
While most claims like this reinforce the fact that with computers the more junk you put in the more junk you get out.

It also shows that people don't really read the articles linked as sources. If they did, they would have seen this:
"Nearly 45,000 annual deaths are associated with lack of health insurance, according to a new study published online today by the American Journal of Public Health. That figure is about two and a half times higher than an estimate from the Institute of Medicine (IOM) in 2002." article dated September 17, 2009
 
George. Any number of Americans who are dying because they cannot afford health care is too high. Health should not be a privilege. Basic health should be something every person deserves to have.
 
George. Any number of Americans who are dying because they cannot afford health care is too high. Health should not be a privilege. Basic health should be something every person deserves to have.
Everyone deserves to own a house, but that idea collapsed the economy.
 
But nobody actually needs a house, you can live in apartments etc. you cant live without health.
 
Either way, if an individual has to fork out over a hundred bucks a month for a "health" insurance that doesn't do anything unless that person is facing either death or permanent disability, there's something terribly wrong with that system because it discourages people from going to see a doctor while an injury or illness is very treatable.

A can of corn or beans from a lower end supermarket costs about .70 cents. So I don't understand why the government gives out food. Are you telling me that an individual who is not disabled is incapable of making .70 cents in one day? Are you friggin' kidding me? It's pretty obvious where they're using the rest of their money: drugs. Cut the supply of free food.
Healthcare involves everyone, including those who work and are productive members of society.
 
-snip- Health should not be a privilege. Basic health should be something every person deserves to have.
This is why, in Europe, its considered a basic human right for every citizen, money or not (and constitutionally implemented so, if sometimes indirect: Article 1 introducing the German constituion: "(1) Die Würde des Menschen ist unantastbar. Sie zu achten und zu schützen ist Verpflichtung aller staatlichen Gewalt"; Freely Translated: (1) Human Dignity is the most basic good and not to be touched/denied ever. To respect it and to protect it is the highest obligation of every state institution or state executive power"; our social systems are based on this article, as only a healthy human can preserve dignity). Paying all those freely included to protect what we believe to be dignity, we still have (Spain, Germany are the only ones I can comment on from experience) a cheaper and better system.

If my kid (the future, see it from a sociological - investor into social security - or from an economic POV - each human person here in Europe is calculated to be an economic assett worth 18 Million Euro in average - ) gets ill, it will get the best treatment you can think of, and it will cost me zilch, zero, and that makes sense.

The difference to private security paying ppl is that, when private, my kid will be treated faster if the case is not urgent, and that it will have it´s own single room (? right, just what I want!) and I can chose the doctor/surgeon. Not private, the treatment *quality* will be alike, forget about cost as a citizen (that is why we pay a bit more than the average US citizen on taxes and have obligatory Social Security payments to make if we have income). This also is the reason why those movies about the "...heroic father taking hostages to get a heart valve replacment for his daughter..." don´t fly here, and, from my POV rightly so.

Beat that, US, then let´s talk again (or, after you found yourself unable to economically save your kid because you cannot afford a transplant and have to visit the cemetry every day...). From my POV - no offense intended at all, just the way I see it - you US guys are, without realizing you are being used as cannon fodder by interested groups that have no health care problems, systematically risking to waste your future just to keep some insurance companies rich, and they sure want you to think that way, and they will do everything and spend a lot of money to keep you wanting to think so also...

As we say here about democratic states: "Each people has the system/leaders/crooks it deserves!".

Rattler
 
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Topic was health insurance -snip-.

Where in the Constitution does it give the Fed. Govt power to force people to buy something?

erm, if I read the topic right it was about dead people (many of them persons, i.e. friends, brothers, parents, sisters and children of someone), 45.000 of them (which, if my first take is right would make it 150.000+ ppl affected), in a first world country that calls itself the greatest, *because they could not afford* to be treated and live on (how many might have survived with treatment, is another question, which I leave to you apologist statisticians).

Where in this constiutuion of yours with its 5th amendment giving "life" a basic human right status (and, on top, stating "happiness" as a human right in the Declaration of Independance) is it excluding some percentage of the popululation from this right to life on the reason of not having enough money? Maybe "life" only for the ones who can buy it? (I must admit, I am not current on your court´s interpretation on the right of life, so it might well be it is only for rich, if so. please elighten me).

For me as European, I go with the "dignity" expression to base a constitution on any time.

Rattler
 
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erm, if I read the topic right it was about dead people (many of them persons, i.e. friends, brothers, parents, sisters and children of someone), 45.000 of them (which, if my first take is right would make it 150.000+ ppl affected), in a first world country that calls itself the greatest, *because they could not afford* to be treated and live on (how many might have survived with treatment, is another question, which I leave to you apologist statisticians).

Where in this constiutuion of yours with its 5th amendment giving "life" a basic human right status (and, on top, stating "happiness" as a human right in the Declaration of Independance) is it excluding some percentage of the popululation from this right to life on the reason of not having enough money? Maybe "life" only for the ones who can buy it? (I must admit, I am not current on your court´s interpretation on the right of life, so it might well be it is only for rich, if so. please elighten me).

For me as European, I go with the "dignity" expression to base a constitution on any time.

Rattler
5th Admendment says the Govt. can't take your life, liberty or property with out due process of Law. Nothing about requiring or providing health care/insurance.
 
It's alright. If Americans want a 3rd world type health care "system" then I suppose that's how things work in America.
Things don't always need to make sense.
Just chalk it down as a cultural difference.
Like if folks enjoy walking around half naked with a gourd covering their *****, that's their business. If they enjoy forking out tons of money for something that could so easily be affordable, that's how things fly in America.
Nowhere else have I had to fork out so much money to just not break a regulation, rule or law and few places in the world does so much money give you so little in return.
But I accept it as a cultural difference.
 
Either way, if an individual has to fork out over a hundred bucks a month for a "health" insurance that doesn't do anything unless that person is facing either death or permanent disability, there's something terribly wrong with that system because it discourages people from going to see a doctor while an injury or illness is very treatable.

A can of corn or beans from a lower end supermarket costs about .70 cents. So I don't understand why the government gives out food. Are you telling me that an individual who is not disabled is incapable of making .70 cents in one day? Are you friggin' kidding me? It's pretty obvious where they're using the rest of their money: drugs. Cut the supply of free food.
Healthcare involves everyone, including those who work and are productive members of society.
And a 6 pack of ramen noodles for $1.
 
Good argument, Hmm. Really brilliant. I think I've seen the light. They don't deserve decent health care.


:roll: Completely disregarded the topic.
 
And a 6 pack of ramen noodles for $1.

You can find that in many places.
But yes, cheap food is rather cheap. Which is why it baffles me as to why food is provided by the government.
Funny thing about food... you have to pay tip at the restaurant.
But like I said, that's just America and we just have to accept it for what it is.
It's not right for the rest of us to impose our views too much.
 
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