118 active duty military members petition congress ...

Chief Bones

Forums Grumpy Old Man
The wording of the Appeal for Redress is short and simple. It is patriotic and respectful in tone. (Their words).

Appeal of Redress:
"As a patriotic American proud to serve the nation in uniform, I respectfully urge my political leaders in Congress to support the prompt withdrawal of all American military forces and bases from Iraq . Staying in Iraq will not work and is not worth the price. It is time for U.S. troops to come home".

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My commentary:
So much for the troop's unreserved troop support of GW Bush's war. A Detroit Free Press article brings home the very real disconnect between what the administration has been saying active duty personnel are saying in public ... and ... what the active service members themselves have really been saying in private. So far 118 active duty members have signed an Appeal for Redress, that provides a way in which individual service members can appeal to their Congressional Representative and US Senators to urge an end to the U.S. military occupation. The Appeal messages will be delivered to members of Congress at the time of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Day in January 2007.

Even though An Appeal of Redress is legal, this is a petition that I CAN NOT support (active military or civilian). I consider this to be a clear violation of the oath they took at the time of their induction, and a clear break in the faith placed in them by all Americans. Even though I have spoken out AGAINST GW and his administration as a retired military man (and a civilian), these 118 individuals are wrong to take this action.

All of them are still on active duty under military discipline, and subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ). An Appeal of Redress is supposed to be used to seek Redress for the actions of a Commander against an individual ... that is NOT the case here ... this is a petition against the government of the United States pure and simple, and is ill advised in my opinion. This is a military matter, NOT a civilian political excercise of political dissent.

HOWEVER -
For active duty military personnel to take this action (even though it is only 118 personnel at this time), it defines exactly what many of the people that are at the pointed end of the sword really think about GW's policies (or lack thereof).

GW lives in his own little world, and doesn't seem to want to listen to anyone who rocks his rowboat of state ... but ... this latest article isn't just a little ripple on GW's pond. For very junior military people to put their necks on the chopping block by signing a petition, points out the very real chasm that has opened up between military members and the administration over the Iraq policy. When the very people that must carry out the implementation of your policies oppose you ... just maybe you are holding a 'busted flush' and it's time for a new deck.

Even though I can NOT support these members with their petition, I can very easily understand the very real soul searching they must have gone through to have signed it ... and ... readily understand the (WHY? of it).

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INFORMATION:
Free Press article:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061025/NEWS07/610250340/1009

Petition site:
http://www.appealforredress.org/

THE RIGHT OF SERVICE MEMBERS TO COMPLAIN AND REQUEST REDRESS
Article 3.5.7 DOD Directive 1325.6 provides the right of service members to complain and request redress of grievances against actions of their commanders. (IMPORTANT NOTE: A redress is not to be confused with a petition. The action taken here by individual service members is an Appeal for Redress to End the War in Iraq.)
 
The fact that much of the article is located in the Free Press tends to make me believe that a liberal press might be urging military members to ask for redress. If a member asks for redress on his own volition I feel it is OK, but when pressured to do so by someone with an agenda it is wrong and both parties should be hammered for doing so, the military member and the outside person that influenced him or her to do it.
 
The fact that much of the article is located in the Free Press tends to make me believe that a liberal press might be urging military members to ask for redress. If a member asks for redress on his own volition I feel it is OK, but when pressured to do so by someone with an agenda it is wrong and both parties should be hammered for doing so, the military member and the outside person that influenced him or her to do it.

Senior Chief
As far as I can tell, the Detroit Free Press is only reporting about this group - as far as I can tell, they have absolutely nothing to do with the group itself.

I first heard about this on PBR during the Nightly News recap - one of the signers was interviewed, and a short clip was aired.

The group has their own internet site ... you might want to visit it -
http://www.appealforredress.org/
 
The US military is not a democracy. You follow orders and obey them as you swore to in the oath. All 118 members should be hammered, this crap needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.
 
The US military is not a democracy. You follow orders and obey them as you swore to in the oath. All 118 members should be hammered, this crap needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP.

I totally agree. Most people tend to understand their position while under oath. I honestly think these people are using the ability to redress in an inappropriate manner.
 
If you joined after 9/11 and are part of this petition, then they need to be kicked in the butt. Come on folks, wake the :cens: up
 
If you joined after 9/11 and are part of this petition, then they need to be kicked in the butt. Come on folks, wake the :cens: up

I agree with the exception of I think if you signed up at any time after the U.S. military became an all volunteer force you need to be kicked in the butt.

When I was recalled to active duty for Desert Storm I heard the first round of "I joined to go to college, I didn't join to go to war." Round two came when there was a recall after 9/11. Different people but the exact same reaction.

The only people that I think should be offended are those with no common sense. We all took the same oath when we joined.
 
Have any of you Military members considered the possibility of judicial punishment under the UCMJ. Something about jumping the chain of command? I doubt they have talked with their chain of command. If they had talked with their chain of command then they would have been counseled on what actions they can and can not take and where this particular directive would apply.

I have scanned the particular part of the DOD Directive and I did not see anywhere, in word or spirit, where this directive would apply in this situation.

Therefore it is my opinion that these "servicemembers" - yes, I use that term very loosely as they are not serving anyone but themselves - should be punished to the full extent of the law for jumping the chain of command.(EDIT: After further consideration I can not see where they violated any particular law. I do hope to see them laughed at and ridiculed for their actions).


EDIT: This applies to the active duty personnel that signed the petition for redress. Also if you notice it only highlights what they are able to do. It does not go into detail and state that only under certain circumstances are they free to do the things they "have the right to do". As was stated before. The military is NOT a democracy. All servicemembers have certain inalienable rights. Unfortunately some people interpret those rights to include the same rights as if they were a civilian.
 
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I have had many opportunities to get out to include job opportunities. The only way I will get out before 22 or 24 years is 1) I die, or 2) the Army throws me out. That's the bottom line.
 
In 1970 I received a letter from the President, Richard M. Nixon. In that letter I was invited to participate in the military. I grew up in an Army town so I was not inclined to go into the Army. I chose the Navy's AEF program. The program was a four year enlistement with a manditory 2 year extension for the Electronics Training I would receive. Tagged on to that requirement was something called a Variable Re-enlistment Bonus (VRB). After I had been my four years I was notified that the VRB had been superceded by the Selective Re-enlistment Bonus (SRB) but it required an additional year of service. This affected many of the people in the Electronics ratings in the Navy. I wrote a letter to the Chief of Naval Personnel, VIA the Chain of Command requesting to be released from my obligation as the Navy had reneged on it's "promise".

The reply form NavPers was one of a shocking nature, basically it told me to shut up and serve my time. (Just for the record, I did not expect to be discharged.) I was counseled by the division Master Chief, the Department Head, the CMC as well as the XO. Later I was informed that due to my letter that I was included in a class action suit against the Navy/Government regarding the VRB/SRB program. Again I was counseled, but was given a clear record as I did not actively initiate adding my name to the list. Eventually all sailors that were affected by the change in policy were added to the class action suit.

Two years after I was honorably discharged from active duty I received a check for almost $5,000. It was my VRB with interest.

If you stay within the system you can do many things. As Marinerhodes said, you have to play by the UCMJ and the U.S. Code when objecting to your situation.

The more I think of it I think these guys need to be packed off to a nice place for a long period of time. Someplace like the USDB at Ft. Leavenworth, or any other Army or Air Force Regional Confinment Center, or any Naval Brig or Marine Corps Brig.

It's not nice to mess with Uncle Sam!
 
I have had many opportunities to get out to include job opportunities. The only way I will get out before 22 or 24 years is 1) I die, or 2) the Army throws me out. That's the bottom line.

I don't think you'll be thrown out unless there is a MAJOR foul up!! ;)

How long before LTC?
 
Once again, I could very easily google this for you, but I won't. There is no war in the U.S. history, that does not include members of the military refusing to fight and/or not supporting that particular war or that particular President. This is not a GW thing this is a some people are just that way thing. Knowing your history would help to keep you from making broad and general statements.
 
Oh it is a group with an agenda....

Some quick research and a who is search comes up with the following

Whois lookup for appealforredress.org.
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Domain ID:D128489228-LROR
Domain Name:APPEALFORREDRESS.ORG
Created On:07-Sep-2006 11:37:49 UTC
Last Updated On:27-Oct-2006 17:26:40 UTC
Expiration Date:07-Sep-2007 11:37:49 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:Intercosmos Media Group Inc. (R48-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Status:CLIENT UPDATE PROHIBITED
Status:TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:ODN-774081
Registrant Name:Michael McPhearson
Registrant Organization:Veterans for Peace
Registrant Street1:216 S. Meramec Ave.
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:St Louis
Registrant State/Province:MO
Registrant Postal Code:63105
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.0000000000
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:admin@appealforredress.org
Admin ID:ODN-774081
Admin Name:Michael McPhearson
Admin Organization:Veterans for Peace
Admin Street1:216 S. Meramec Ave.
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:St Louis
Admin State/Province:MO
Admin Postal Code:63105
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.0000000000
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:admin@appealforredress.org
Tech ID:ODN-774081
Tech Name:Michael McPhearson
Tech Organization:Veterans for Peace
Tech Street1:216 S. Meramec Ave.
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:St Louis
Tech State/Province:MO
Tech Postal Code:63105
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.0000000000
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:admin@appealforredress.org
Name Server:NS1.LIGHTSKY.NET
Name Server:NS2.LIGHTSKY.NET
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A google search of the owners name shows this...
http://www.aclu.org/safefree/resources/17487res20040309.html

Just providing some information on the information ;)

-edit

I have a problem with this statement
Iraq Veterans Against the War (IVAW) is a group of veterans who have served since September 11, 2001 including Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom. We are committed to saving lives and ending the violence in Iraq by an immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces. We also believe that the governments that sponsored these wars are indebted to the men and women who were forced to fight them and must give their Soldiers, Marines, Sailors, and Airmen the benefits that are owed to them upon their return home.

The problem I have is with the term FORCE, last time I checked you signed up for the military in the USA and if you thought you would just get a 4 year ride doing training you must be crazy...

I have the utmost repesect for our soldiers and feel they should be treated far better then some hollywood celeberity, however they did choose to be a US Soldier...
 
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Donkey, this is how its supposed to be, question everything and find out what the source is. Good job.
 
Two years at hard labor and a dishonorable discharge. And I think something like this is too close to treason to take a chance.
 
Two years at hard labor and a dishonorable discharge. And I think something like this is too close to treason to take a chance.

I could buy the Dishonorable Discharge, I could buy time at hard labor - I am not sure about treason.

Supposedly, these individuals are military members that have already served in Iraq ......... (Don't quote me as being 100% right - just remember reading something about this that leads me to believe it were so).

I believe that they received bad legal advice, and thought Appeal of Redress was the way to go, to make their honest opinions and voices heard, where they couldn't be muzzled.

I have already stated "I consider this to be a clear violation of the oath they took at the time of their induction, and a clear break in the faith placed in them by all Americans."


It requires further investigation by military legal investigators - if it is as we believe - 100% illegal, then Courts Martial is called for where these 118 military members are concerned.
 
Each case needs to be looked at individually. There are always some coerced and those who just follow the crowd.
 
I could buy the Dishonorable Discharge, I could buy time at hard labor - I am not sure about treason.

Supposedly, these individuals are military members that have already served in Iraq ......... (Don't quote me as being 100% right - just remember reading something about this that leads me to believe it were so).

I believe that they received bad legal advice, and thought Appeal of Redress was the way to go, to make their honest opinions and voices heard, where they couldn't be muzzled.

I have already stated "I consider this to be a clear violation of the oath they took at the time of their induction, and a clear break in the faith placed in them by all Americans."


It requires further investigation by military legal investigators - if it is as we believe - 100% illegal, then Courts Martial is called for where these 118 military members are concerned.



Saying that they served in Iraq, may impress civilians, but it doesnt wash with me. Where and in what capacity would make a huge difference on how I viewed their opinions.

In that same venue, that fact that you are clearly against the administration and the war, but still clearly state that you dont like what they are doing, makes my respect for you higher( not that you give a rats a** what I think of you Chief)

I am pretty sure that speaking out against the CiC whilst in uniform is a UCMJ nono, and i hope they get there peepees smacked for it.
 
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Dishonorable discharge for being :cens: and we're done here.

I agree with them, but when you sign up, you make a commitment that you can't break and I respect that.
 
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