Well, I think militias are a necessary part of democracy (whatever you call them, posse comitatus, territorials, civil defence forces).

If there is one thing New Orleans teaches is that in a crisis, civilians are either part of the solution, or they are surely a big part of the problem. It was interesting that in the London bombings, many of the first responders were trained civilians - commandeering buses as ambulances, or setting up first aid stations.

The way to stop them being armed gangs is probably to follow the Kommando model above, or the Swiss model, where people are trained and equipped by the State, with the proviso that they must make themselves available. I think there need to be a range of roles too, not just infantry but also corpsmen (first aiders) and commo people (think radio hams).

The modern Western state relies on a bargain between its government and people: the State reserves the right of using violence to itself, in return for letting people choose their government in elections and for that government to respect its people's (human) rights. The militia has to be a part of that, and so cannot allowed to use violence outside of state control, while this bargain holds.

Who said it... "Where the government fears the people there is liberty and where the people fear the government there is tyranny."

Warwick, the Kommandoes didn't need anyone to keep them in line. They were exceptionally well disciplined and I'm sorry to say, but they were a very lawful bunch of people. We never feared them and trusted them with our lives - mostly because they were our fathers, sons, uncles and even grandfathers. My grandfather ran the local Kommandoe on the town close to our farm (Vivo - population 200). We basically patrolled all the farms and made sure kids got to school ok, etc.
I can't recall a single incident of abuse/rampant violenc or theft by one of these Kommandoe units. The current regime closed all the Kommandoe's down - mostly because the majority of the members were Afrikaners (white south africans). The regime feared that these Kommandoe units would start a rebellion - the reason for the fear - crime, racist behaviour towards Afrikaners ets. Since the kommandoes had been disbanded, rural crime had skyricketed out of control.

Thanks for that Bushpig. Sorry to hear that things are not going to well under the new regime.
I do remember seeing on 60mins some time a go a bunch of Boers that were very right wing. Basically trained as there own private militia.
Is any of Zimbabwes problems spilling over the border into SA????

Originally Posted by Warwick

Thanks for that Bushpig. Sorry to hear that things are not going to well under the new regime.
I do remember seeing on 60mins some time a go a bunch of Boers that were very right wing. Basically trained as there own private militia.
Is any of Zimbabwes problems spilling over the border into SA????

Yeah, the right wingers (AWB party) acted out too soon, too harsh. They should have been more discreet and focused more on culture preservation and food programmes, but the past is the past.
Zimbabwe's problems are spilling over on a huge scale. The commie regime went and donated a bunch of tax payers' money to Zim for food and we also have an additional 2 million Zim illegals in the country now. Not to mention that Mugabe managed to destroy some of the best crop producing areas in Africa!
Whole place is going to the dogs - last civilized person to board the plane should just turn the lights out and let it all go back to the way it was 400 years ago - coming from me, that's a lot, since my family's been in South Africa since 1672. We were literally in the cape before the Xhosa's.
Only people in South Africa that can rightly lay claim to any land, are the Zulu's and the Khoi (of which none remain - western diseases wreaked havoc under them). The San still survive in the Northen Cape/Namibia regions. The rest is all Xhosa (the moved down from where Botswana and Zim is now) about 200 years ago, if I recall my history correctly.