The greatest Egyptian victory was probably psychological.

I completely agree with fredleander;

Originally Posted by fredleander

The greatest Egyptian victory was probably psychological.

YES... I totally agree! In the past the world saw conflicts as Arabs versus Jews. So whenever the Israelis won the previous conflicts, the Arab champion -Egypt (mainly), and the Arab community identified themselves as losers! This time it was different, Syria got its butt kicked -as usual but, Egypt won in the minds of many. America's help came at a time in which reserves was extremely low, such as 105mm ammunition came at a critical time and if the Israeli Army had to stop using this critical piece tank cannon and artillery, the Israeli Army would have to reconsider their offensive plans in crossing the Suez Canal!

Egypt's success caused the Arab world to feel psychologically vindicated by early successes in the conflict... it made a major difference in the peace negotiations. The ending of the war effectively ended Israel's sense of invincibility and complacency was shattered, once an for all.

Between 1967-73, the Six Day War to the Yom Kippur War, the Soviet Union supplied 400 T-62 tanks to Egypt. This included the last shippment which had 96 brand-new T-62 tanks with their 115mm cannons and its night vision capability. No Israeli tanks had any night vision ability at all. Egypt and Syria also recieved Sagger and Snapper Missiles before the war and the infantry learned how to use them.
First C-5 in "Operation Grass Nickel" did not arrive in Israel until the evening of Oct. 14th. By then, however, Israel counter-offensive was fully on the move and the tide of the war had begun to changed.
The first C-5s carried 97 tons of 105mm howitzer shells, and it arrived at a time when Israeli forces were down to their last supplies of ammunition. Another 829 tons would be delivered in the next 24 hours. C-5 Galaxies also delivered 36 A-4 Skyhawks from the U.S. From USAF stocks in Europe 40 F-4 Phantom fighters were flown to Israeli bases. The 268 C-141s and 77 C-5As, with this the USAF could sustain a steady flow of three C-141s every two hours and four C-5s every four hours-indefinitely! The C-5s carried 48% of the total cargo from the USA in only 145 of the 567 total missions. The C-5 fleet used 24% less fuel than the C-141s fleet. The performance of the C-5 in this operation justified its C-5's existence. (Now you can see another reason the USA's military budget is so large! To have all this equiptment plus the means to rapidly transport the goods any where in the world they are needed, very quickly.)
Twelve C-130's were transferred to the IDF/AF.
The sea lift portion of Operation Grass Nickel transported over 33,000 tons of equipment, most of the armor and other large items. The sealift first arrived in Israeli sea ports in November of 1973!
What Operation Grass Nickel provided Israel was the knowledge that they could go ahead use their reserve equipment or weapons with the knowledge that replacement weapons were on their way.

Originally Posted by O.W.E.G.

Avon I noticed Ure saying the soviets supplied but we paid every dime in those weapons from our money while nickel grass was aid for free

The total cost of Operation Grass Nickel was $800M (in 1970 US dollars). How much of this cost was actual weapons and supplies, I don't know. Most of the large equipment arrived by sea after the ceasefire. Paid for by US Foreign Military Loans.... you know those one and two percent interest loans!! (US Military sales and loans are part of a massive topic of which there is little information on, in the public sector.)
The Soviets charged their client states more, that did not have communist governments! States with communist governments or leftist revolutionary groups get free and or at very low priced weapons. Soviet weapons were cheaper to buy and getting lower prices made many things initially, affordable. Soviet versus American weapons in price are dramatically different. A MiG-21 (back in the early 70s) cost around $1.5M while an F-4 Phantom cost over $4M but, the MiG-21 is more expensive to operate than the F-4! Israel did pay $25M for their first F-15As! The Soviet Union also gives generous discounts depending upon relations between the two governments. The USA has higher price items and gives discounts from time to time but, the Foreign Military Loans provide interest rates which are difficult to beat!

Interesting facts AVON.

In my mind it is very clear who lost and who won every war Israel has faught in.
Not once has the strategic objective (the iniolation of Israel) been achieved regardless of how sneaky the attacks have been, Israel has whipped Arab butt everytime all the time.

Yes Israel has recieved US support in a quantity bordering rediculous, but so has the Arab states.
Israel has also made improvements on the kit they have recieved and in some cases produced their own kit that is fit for first echelon duty. (Kfir fighters and Merkava Tanks come to mind)
The arab countries have not.
Furthermore the arab countries tactics and logistical support plans have been a fu**ing joke at all times.
That is why even after the sneaky peaky attacks initial success they get outmanouvered and shot off like at a turkey shoot by the Israeli armor and AF.
Lesson learned:
Either you adapt your tactics and support to the terrain you are fighting in or you better have soo much equipment that you can sustain rediculous losses in definate.
The arabs has neither no matter how much russki kit they get..

The good thing is that it ain´t gonna be a rematch in the forseable future because there are noone crazy enough left to supply arms to these countries.
Not anyone with weaponry in enough quantity atleast.
Not untill China wanna get in on the oil game.
They have so far been alot smarter though as they simply purchase strategically vital areas and installations. ie: harbors, oilraffinaries etc etc.

I predict there will be the odd suicide bombing here and there in Israel but that´s about it in the forseable future.
Even that Iranian nutjob of a president will probably think twice before using whatever nuke he can manage to manufacture.

KJ sends..

Let's just hope that you're right there KJ.

Originally Posted by KJ

Israel has also made improvements on the kit they have recieved and in some cases produced their own kit that is fit for first echelon duty. (Kfir fighters and Merkava Tanks come to mind)

The Kfir is a major modification on the Mirage III, done totally without the approval of Dassault. The Merkava is a completely an Israeli design. The Israelis did a study which showed the major expense of a tank in combat is the wounded crew members. The loss of taxes the crew members dead, wounded/disabled and, supporting the widows, their children of the deceased tank crew members. The loss of one tank in combat cost three times the original price of the tank due to crew members lost and their families. This is why the Merkava place survivability as the number one priority. The USA also followed this philosophy with M-1 Abrams tank.

Originally Posted by KJ

Not anyone with weaponry in enough quantity atleast.

Well, that is not completely true, Egypt is buying the M-1 Abrams tanks and the F-16 fighter-bombers! (Plus the are receiving US training on how to use the weapons -effectively!) Syria is getting more MiG-29s and some MiG-31s. They are also getting "Sunburn" anti ship missiles. An effort to neutralize the Israeli Navy.

Originally Posted by KJ

The good thing is that it ain´t gonna be a rematch in the forseable future because there are noone crazy enough left to supply arms to these countries.

I hope you guys are correct?

a little offtopic dont u think? any way kj egypt's objectives were to hold a strip land on the east of the suez canal and we did and we completely destroyed nearly 1/2 of israels army in the first 4-6 days of the war 800 tanks and 200 aircraft but nickel grass switched the tide and the counter attack of israel didnt do nothing and dont count the new equipment as the major help the major help was in the ammunition that was supplied