What were the Soviets top mistakes.

Everyone debates how much Hitler interfered in Germany, and the list of mistakes the Germans made, and if they fought the war differently how it may have turned out, but on the other hand, Stalin and the long list of Russian mistakes are not mentioned very much.

They probably trumped even the German errors.

Originally Posted by Ashes

What were the Soviets top mistakes.

Everyone debates how much Hitler interfered in Germany, and the list of mistakes the Germans made, and if they fought the war differently how it may have turned out, but on the other hand, Stalin and the long list of Russian mistakes are not mentioned very much.

They probably trumped even the German errors.

A very tough question!

It is very difficult to define whether it was an error or a policy(a bug or a feature )?

For example, the infamous purges in the Armed Forces. For the outsider, it was a huge mistake. But for Stalin it had it's own logic and he never regretted it. And it had some positive effect in creating opportunities for the young officers like Zhukov and Rokossovskij.

He has imprisoned many leading aircraft designers(i. e. Tupolev) and forced them work on their designs in the special prison camps. But he has not killed them.
My list of the top Soviet mistakes, however, would be as following:
1. Inability to stab Hitler in the back in 1940-41when he was still busy elsewhere.
2. Inability to believe the numerous intelligence(Zorge, Churchill and many others) who has warned Stalin about the imminent German attack on 6/22/41.
3. Dismantling of the fortifications on the old Polish-Soviet border before the new ones have been built.
4. War with Finland (the Winter War of 39/40). Neutral or even allied Finland could have helped a lot the Allies in general, not just the Soviets
This list can go on and on...

Well I think the largest error was when Stalin purged all his experianced officers from the Red Army, replacing them with political appointments or greenhorns who couldnt tell the difference between the Butt and the Barrel of a Nosin-Nagent rifle. Needless to say, they were steamrolled by the German Juggernault.

The 3 biggest mistakes were as already stated namely:

1. The Stalinist purges of the late 1930s purged many fine officers from the ranks of the Red Army. Because of this, inexperienced and mediocre commanders were placed in charge of Red Army formations that otherwise they never should have had the right to command. A good example of this would be Marshall Semyon Budenny, a character that looked like Daniel Day Lewis's character from 'Gangs of New York' but who was responsible for the loss of over 600,000 men at Kiev.

2. The failure of Stalin to believe that a German attack was imminent. Old Josef had the 'Lucy' Spy Ring, Winston Churchill and Richard Sorge all warn him of the aggressive intent of Germany. Stalin had the date of the attack, the German campaign plan, the names of each Army and all the names of all Army commanders down to Corps level. He also knew exactly how many tanks each Army Group had, what type they were and their initial deployment and lines of attack. Never has there been a state that was better warned about the intentions of another but Stalin did nothing, fearful that 'enemies' were trying to put a wedge between himself and Hitler.

3. The Red Army defending the border with Germany was wrongly dispersed. As a means to appease Hitler and not give him any possible provacation, Stalin had the Red Army widely dispersed in forward positions. The length of front allocated to each Army was far too long for them to realistically defend and the distance from each Army to its HQ meant that orders to withdraw into defensible positions couldn't possibly be received in time when the Germans attacked. Also, as a result of their forward dispersation, the Germans had suceeding in cutting much of the communication lines between the Red Army forward units and their HQs, further adding to the confusion. Moreover, the Soviet airforce, the VVS, was not able to be properly dispersed in time and consequently the Luftwaffe destroyed a large proportion of it on the ground.

I haven't included the Winter War because, although a humilating defeat for the USSR, IMO it didn't really have a long term impact on the war. Of the 3 mistakes above No 2 is the most glaring.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

The 3 biggest mistakes were as already stated namely:

3. The Red Army defending the border with Germany was wrongly dispersed. As a means to appease Hitler and not give him any possible provacation, Stalin had the Red Army widely dispersed in forward positions. The length of front allocated to each Army was far too long for them to realistically defend and the distance from each Army to its HQ meant that orders to withdraw into defensible positions couldn't possibly be received in time when the Germans attacked. Also, as a result of their forward dispersation, the Germans had suceeding in cutting much of the communication lines between the Red Army forward units and their HQs, further adding to the confusion. Moreover, the Soviet airforce, the VVS, was not able to be properly dispersed in time and consequently the Luftwaffe destroyed a large proportion of it on the ground..

There is a very popular theory in Russia(the most prominent proponent is Viktor Suvorov a.k.a Rezun - former GRU officer, now in exile in the UK) that the USSR was preparing her own blitzkrieg to be started in July 1941.
There are many facts supporting this theory... For example, when the war started, the commanders of the Army and Navy units on the southern flank(where there was no German troops at that time just the Romainians) have opened their sealed orders - there were orders to atack!
And they have attacked ans occupied some Romainian territory before being outflanked by the German advance in the Western Ukraine. The Black Sea Fleet has bombed the Romainian ports and the oil fields have been mombed as well.
In my previous life(in the USSR) I have read a lot of war memoirs of the Soviet Marshals and Generals. Of those who happened to be near the border on 06/22/41 have written the same story: "We were sleeping in our tents when the bombs started to fall..." Those troops who are getting ready for the defense don't sleep in tents - they build bunkers!

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I haven't included the Winter War because, although a humilating defeat for the USSR, IMO it didn't really have a long term impact on the war. Of the 3 mistakes above No 2 is the most glaring.

There were a few of long lasting effects:

1. Finland was a pro-Ally and anti-German country before the Winter War. after the war, she had no choice but to join Germany
2. Due to this, the Baltic has become a German lake and the cruicial link between Germany and Sweden has been secured until winter of '45.
3. Russia couls spare a lot of troops and efforts to help in other places as well to push into Northern Norway which would be appreciated by the Allied sailors a lot

Originally Posted by boris116

There is a very popular theory in Russia(the most prominent proponent is Viktor Suvorov a.k.a Rezun - former GRU officer, now in exile in the UK) that the USSR was preparing her own blitzkrieg to be started in July 1941.
There are many facts supporting this theory... For example, when the war started, the commanders of the Army and Navy units on the southern flank(where there was no German troops at that time just the Romainians) have opened their sealed orders - there were orders to atack!
And they have attacked ans occupied some Romainian territory before being outflanked by the German advance in the Western Ukraine. The Black Sea Fleet has bombed the Romainian ports and the oil fields have been mombed as well.
In my previous life(in the USSR) I have read a lot of war memoirs of the Soviet Marshals and Generals. Of those who happened to be near the border on 06/22/41 have written the same story: "We were sleeping in our tents when the bombs started to fall..." Those troops who are getting ready for the defense don't sleep in tents - they build bunkers!

I've heard about this theory but most experts seem to debunk it. Glantz in particular has stated that the Red Army in 1941 was neither in a position to defend nor attack adequately. Perhaps Stalin did have some plans to attack Germany but not in 1941. Certainly, the Red Army was going through a big reorganisation after the purges of 1938. Many new tank corps were being formed for example. Hitler had been advised by his own experts that Germany's enemies would reach tactical and technological parity by 1943. Hitler expected an attack at some point from Stalin and I think he knew he had to get there first. I think, however, any Soviet attack on Germany in 1941 would have been a disaster for them in any case.

Originally Posted by boris116

There were a few of long lasting effects:

1. Finland was a pro-Ally and anti-German country before the Winter War. after the war, she had no choice but to join Germany
2. Due to this, the Baltic has become a German lake and the cruicial link between Germany and Sweden has been secured until winter of '45.
3. Russia couls spare a lot of troops and efforts to help in other places as well to push into Northern Norway which would be appreciated by the Allied sailors a lot

I don't want it to seem like I don't think there wouldn't be any positive impact for the USSR by having Finland as an ally. Of course there would be. But in reality although Finland was allied with Germany they didn't contribute all that much to Barbarossa, and I don't think their influence on the war had any significant impact to the final outcome.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

I don't want it to seem like I don't think there wouldn't be any positive impact for the USSR by having Finland as an ally. Of course there would be. But in reality although Finland was allied with Germany they didn't contribute all that much to Barbarossa, and I don't think their influence on the war had any significant impact to the final outcome.

You are right. Finland was not a very enthusiastic ally for the Germans. They have recovered the territories taken by the Soviets after the Winter War and then stopped!
However, as soon as they got a peace threaty with Stalin they have dealt very swiftly with the German forces in Finland!

There are numerous jokes about some countries as allies vs. foes. I would always prefer to have the Finns as allies, not as enemies

Not enough to put Russian soldiers on the border with Germans. They should keep eyes on the germans. You know, Nazi are part of anti-communist. Russian communist shouldn't trust the Nazi because Nazi are against the communists. Also, Nazi Germany were allied with Fascist Italian. Fascist gov't are against communists, too.

I agree with Boris and Dopplganger on those almost unbelievable blunders by Stalin, it just shows what a imbecile he was, it seemed as though he was doing all he could to hand all the advantages to Hitler.

In Ericksons book ''The Road to Stalingrad'' he explains how paranoid Stalin was not to provoke Hitler even to the point of not allowing Russian AA batteries to fire on dozens of daily German recon. flights over key Russian military installations, to refusing any blackouts in frontier positions.
The forward positions were actually being over run by the Germans, and the front commanders were still not given permission to fire.

It would be laughable if it wasn't so tragic.

On the purges.......
It wasn't just the total of 35,000 officers that were either shot or imprisoned, but it included men like Tukachesvky an expert on the theory of armoured warfare and deep strike tactics, who was beginning to organise armoured divisions the same time as Guderian was in Germany, and had plans to raise tank armies, and he was responsible for the first parachute brigade in any army.

So Stalin has commanders like Tukachesvky shot and men like Rokossovsky in prison then puts his inept cronies like Buddeny in a key command of a million men.

I wonder If that sort of purge happened to the German army, what state would they be in for an attack on Russia, or even defending themselves?

And could the war in Europe possibly have been over by 1940?

If, as some people say, Stalin was intent on invading Germany, he had the perfect chance in '40 when up to 80% of the Werhmacht was fighting the French and British.
What was there to stop him over running the German forces in occupied Poland and moving on to Berlin.
The Germans would have to turn armies against the Russians easing the pressure on the French, the war might have been finished there and then.

Even passing up on that opportunity, he could have at least fully mobilised, so when the Germans turned East, they could be facing anything up to 10 million men instead of 2.9 million.

But, unfortunately he was afraid to even do that for fear of provoking Hitler.

And as you say, Stalin actually having the dispositions of the forces fronting him, the date, and even the time of the attack, on his desk before the attack and ignoring it, must be one of the greatest blunders of the war.

On Suvorov......
He claims in 'Icebreaker' that stalin was going to attack on the 7th July '41, two weeks after Germany invaded, which seems pretty ridiculous.

A perfect example of Suvorov's suspect claims is that Soviet BT tanks were designed to operate on German Autobahns; the only problem with this great piece of logic is that in the Soviet Union the production of the BT-series began in 1931, when there were no Autobahns in Germany and also at a time in which the Soviet Union and Germany lacked a common border.

I think that just about sums him up.

As has been said, Glantz debunked Suvorov's arguments in his book 'Stumbling Colossus'

And it was no 'get them before they get us' by Hitler to attack East, he'd been planning it since 1923, it's all there in black and white. As for Stalin attacking at some in the distant future, well I guess any thing is possible, but all the evidence points the other way, I doubt he'd ever attack a strong Germany, he'd just pick up any scraps that came his way.

Is that true if the russian soldiers are retreating back to line and russian soldiers on the line will shoot russian soldiers if they are retreating? I'm just curious.