Greetings Dean,

I was referring to this statement: "While most (if not all) of the factories in Germany and the occupied territories were indeed destroyed, Germany maintained an industrial base right up to the end of the war". My answer was, and it is based on the United States Strategic Bombing Survey and the work of economic historians, that very little equipment was destroyed. If that is what you meant by "industrial base", sorry for the correction. None was needed.

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

Greetings Dean,

I was referring to this statement: "While most (if not all) of the factories in Germany and the occupied territories were indeed destroyed, Germany maintained an industrial base right up to the end of the war". My answer was, and it is based on the United States Strategic Bombing Survey and the work of economic historians, that very little equipment was destroyed. If that is what you meant by "industrial base", sorry for the correction. None was needed.

The key part of the sentence was "in the occupied territiories". As I undestood it, factories were destroyed or rendered inoperable as the front lines passed over them. On the Eastern Front, they were rendered inoperable as the Russians removed all of the machinery that could be removed, and destroyed the rest. While the Western Allies did not do the same thing, (except, perhaps at Peenumunde and other specific interest sites) I have not heard of any factory of any kind continuing production after the war passed it by. I think the reason that you did not understand what I was saying was my use of occupied. I meant land that was occupied by the Allies, not the Germans. If there were any factories that did continue immediatly afther the Allies took over, I would love to hear about it.

Gotta go to work.....

Dean.

Peenumunde was badly damaged but much of it was moved to caves and tunnels built by slave labour.

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

Peenumunde was badly damaged but much of it was moved to caves and tunnels built by slave labour.

Peenemünde was a research facility and had very little to do with the conventional German war effort. Nor did the "V" weapons.

Originally Posted by Dean

If there were any factories that did continue immediatly afther the Allies took over, I would love to hear about it.

The VW works in what is now Wolfsburg is one example...and there are many others. The American military supported a policy of quick recovery to offset "disease and unrest".

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

The VW works in what is now Wolfsburg is one example...and there are many others. The American military supported a policy of quick recovery to offset "disease and unrest".

Hmmm... I did not know about that policy, although it does dovetail rather nicely with the philosophy behind the Marshall Plan. Ah, well, another subject to read up on.... Thank you.

Oh about Peenumunde. AFAIK, it was one of the few places that the Allies went over with a fine toothed comb to find anything of military or scientific value. Everything and anyone found there went right back to the US, including V-2 rockets and Werner Von Braun. I do know that other factories were not looted, but this is the only exception that I remember.

Dean.

Originally Posted by Dean

Hmmm... I did not know about that policy, although it does dovetail rather nicely with the philosophy behind the Marshall Plan. Ah, well, another subject to read up on.... Thank you.

Oh about Peenumunde. AFAIK, it was one of the few places that the Allies went over with a fine toothed comb to find anything of military or scientific value. Everything and anyone found there went right back to the US, including V-2 rockets and Werner Von Braun. I do know that other factories were not looted, but this is the only exception that I remember.

Dean.

Actually, the western Allies looted Germany to a considerable extent. One of the problems is the lack of attention given the subject. Some historians just argue that whatever was taken was not enough to compensate the victims. The only problem with this theory is that the actual victims were rarely compensated at all. The great powers took what they wanted and kept it for themselves.

Instead of behaving according to international law, with all seizures accounted for in order to determine real reparations, all of the four occupying powers undertook a policy of what is called "hidden reparations". No power came close to the Soviet Union, of course. The French behaved like the Soviets but did not have the time to take their zone to pieces. The British took what they thought valuable. Only the Americans restrained themselves somewhat. The totals still reach into the many billions (I argue hundreds of billions). The French would have gutted Germany, but the Americans and British forced them to behave.

All of this complicates the analysis of postwar German industry for the purpose of determining the impact of strategic bombing.

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

Peenemünde was a research facility and had very little to do with the conventional German war effort. Nor did the "V" weapons.

The V weapons used considerable resources which could have been used for conventional weapons.

Originally Posted by Ollie Garchy

Actually, the western Allies looted Germany to a considerable extent. One of the problems is the lack of attention given the subject. Some historians just argue that whatever was taken was not enough to compensate the victims. The only problem with this theory is that the actual victims were rarely compensated at all. The great powers took what they wanted and kept it for themselves.

Instead of behaving according to international law, with all seizures accounted for in order to determine real reparations, all of the four occupying powers undertook a policy of what is called "hidden reparations". No power came close to the Soviet Union, of course. The French behaved like the Soviets but did not have the time to take their zone to pieces. The British took what they thought valuable. Only the Americans restrained themselves somewhat. The totals still reach into the many billions (I argue hundreds of billions). The French would have gutted Germany, but the Americans and British forced them to behave.

All of this complicates the analysis of postwar German industry for the purpose of determining the impact of strategic bombing.

Interesting moral point, but as the saying goes to the victor the spoils. The Germans did the same, mainly in the east, for example in the stripping of the Ukraine leaving people to starve.

I think unofficial reparations has occured since the first war in history.

Peenumunde was badly damaged but much of it was moved to caves and tunnels built by slave labour.

Yes the V2 industry was moved from Peenemunde to a vast underground complex near Mittlewerk in central Germany around February 1945. Interestingly this was to be within the Soviet sphere, but the Americans temporarily controlled this area until the 20th June 1945 so it was quite a rush to get the rocket assemblies and scientists moved out of East Germany.

Since Hitler decreed that German industry should be destroyed rather than surrendered to the allies (although Speer never really carried out this order) Von Braun had the blueprints hidden. An American Major had the job of finding these and shipping everything out of the Soviet sphere. The SS took Von Braun and most of the top Scientists to Bavaria were they finally surrendered to the Americans.