Churchill had informed Stalin that Germany was going to attack from messages they had decoded from the Ultra machine. Also they had been informed of this attack was pending by other sources as well

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

Churchill had informed Stalin that Germany was going to attack from messages they had decoded from the Ultra machine. Also they had been informed of this attack was pending by other sources as well

...and Stalin due to his nature of trusting nobody though it was a trick.

Originally Posted by mmarsh

...and Stalin due to his nature of trusting nobody though it was a trick.

Regardless of what he thought, he should not have been as unprepared as he was. He gambled with his nation's survival by sticking his head in the sand. He was also unlucky in the sense that it was not the best time for his reforming Red Army to actually have to do something, like defend against the most professional and seasoned army in the world.

Originally Posted by LeEnfield

Churchill had informed Stalin that Germany was going to attack from messages they had decoded from the Ultra machine. Also they had been informed of this attack was pending by other sources as well

Yes, Churchill and the US sent warnings that Germany would attack. Why should the USSR trust either one of them? They thought the English simply wanted the USSR to attack Germany to take the pressure off of England.

Originally Posted by Doppleganger

Regardless of what he thought, he should not have been as unprepared as he was. He gambled with his nation's survival by sticking his head in the sand. He was also unlucky in the sense that it was not the best time for his reforming Red Army to actually have to do something, like defend against the most professional and seasoned army in the world.

And when should he have launched the reforms? He was preparing his army for 'the most professional and season army in the world' by launching reforms and letting the Red Army grow to it's size of over 5 million. Find out how many men the Red Army had in 1938.

"Expecting" an attack and knowing when to mobilize an entire nation for an attack which one knows will definitely occur are two separate issues. The Red Army was growing in size for a reason.

Stalin apparently picks and chooses who to trust and not trust, the same goes for the sources coming in with regards to Hitler planning an attack. Furthermore, those giving Stalin information did not always give him ALL the information. You need to move away from the notion that Stalin knew and saw all as well as gave all the orders.

Hitler and Stalin were very similar in many ways. One of those was the fact that they both tended to try to micromanage their militaries to a ridiculous extent. Saying that Stalin "wasn't giving all the orders" is ridiculous. He had overwhelming authority to make happen whatever he saw fit. What he did not do was establish sufficiently strong defensive preparations along the German Border. To the other point, did Stalin know all in advance? No. Never said that. But he had more than enough cause to greatly strengthen his border forces and defenses just to be on the safe side.

An invasion that failed. If Hitler wanted to conquer the Soviet Union he should have used a lot more troops, at least adhering to the usual 3:1 ratio.

He disregarded that in the invasions of Poland and France. Why change what seems to be working just fine? Germany was outnumbered in every category going into France, yet they were victorious in less than 40 days.

The invasion of the Soviet Union did not fail because of lopsided numbers. Barbarossa was brilliantly successful on every level ... until the Russian Winter kicked in. The problem was the same as that encountered by Napoleon: Russia is just too big, too cold and to far from your supply lines. The three great Russian generals were at their finest in 1941: General Snow, General Mud and General Distance.

Secondly, Stalin had reason to believe the massing of troops on the Soviet border would be part of Hitler's attempt to get concessions out of the Soviet Union.

If someone starts a pissing contest with you (or you think that's what's happening) then any intelligent person comes prepared to fight. Stalin did not.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

Saying that Stalin "wasn't giving all the orders" is ridiculous. He had overwhelming authority to make happen whatever he saw fit.

Then you have a skewed view of Stalin and his reign in the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

What he did not do was establish sufficiently strong defensive preparations along the German Border.

The border had moved, the old defensive line, dubbed the "Stalin Line" was taken apart and the new defensive line was in the midst of being built when the Germans attacked.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

To the other point, did Stalin know all in advance? No. Never said that. But he had more than enough cause to greatly strengthen his border forces and defenses just to be on the safe side.

He was doing just that, you seem to also lack an understanding of what was going on within the Soviet Union before the war began.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

He disregarded that in the invasions of Poland and France. Why change what seems to be working just fine? Germany was outnumbered in every category going into France, yet they were victorious in less than 40 days.

There is no comparison between the two and the Soviet Union, this is also why Blitzkrieg ideas did not work in the Soviet Union.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

The invasion of the Soviet Union did not fail because of lopsided numbers. Barbarossa was brilliantly successful on every level ... until the Russian Winter kicked in.

You must be joking. Do you know the goals for Barbarossa? Look them up, then show me how it was 'brilliantly successful on every level.' The winter is what facilitated the launching of operation Typhoon, your knowledge of the Eastern Front is severely lacking.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

The problem was the same as that encountered by Napoleon: Russia is just too big, too cold and to far from your supply lines. The three great Russian generals were at their finest in 1941: General Snow, General Mud and General Distance.

If you want to show off your ignorance, you're doing an excellent job. Please, list the casualties suffered by the Wehrmacht due to the 'snow', 'mud', and 'distance', then list those inflicted by the Red Army. I find it hard to believe that an armed force, considered by many to have been the greatest of their time, would be destroyed by 'winter', 'mud' and 'distance.' If that is the case, then they are an entirely over-rated opponent.

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

If someone starts a pissing contest with you (or you think that's what's happening) then any intelligent person comes prepared to fight. Stalin did not.

Your comparisons have no context.

And you sir, are an *******. Is it even possible for any human being to be any more condescending?

Originally Posted by godofthunder9010

And you sir, are an *******. Is it even possible for any human being to be any more condescending?

Is that the best you can do? Pay attention, I do not attack you as a person, which you seem to be doing to me at the moment. Rather, I attack your ignorant statements and your ignorance itself. Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Originally Posted by Kunikov

And when should he have launched the reforms? He was preparing his army for 'the most professional and season army in the world' by launching reforms and letting the Red Army grow to it's size of over 5 million. Find out how many men the Red Army had in 1938.

You will note from my post that I made no negative comment regarding the timing of the Red Army reforms, just that they were ongoing when the Germans attacked. From that point of view Stalin was just unlucky.

For the record, Blitzkrieg ideas did work in Russia. We have been over this tired old ground before but the numbers from June 22nd until October 2nd speak for themselves.