Originally Posted by perseus

Dean

Well done for the research. I am tempted to give you the question since it is almost correct in principle, but it is still not the convoy I was thinking of. I hoped that the new weapon would have made it clearer and distinct from the other convoy operations, but I am still not sure if the above strictly matches the requirements of my original question.


The one I am after actually involves two decrypts by BDeinst and one by GC and Bletchley. ie the U boats were put onto an intercept path due to one BDienst decrypt, GC/Bletchley then read the Uboat cipher to change the convoy course then BDeinst read the convoy code again to change the route for a second time. Indeed after all this cat and mouse activity GC/Bletchley read another decrypt which did not provide a position but one which for the first time revealed the inner mind of Uboat command and the crew of the submarines. This must have gave the admiralty increased confidence for the final attack on the U boats.

Man, SC 129 did come close. B Deinst did decode two messages about them, and Bletchley did decode the U-Boat response. The only difference was that one group of U-Boats was sent, then when it became clear that the convoy had avoided them, U-Boat HQ sent a different group to a new intercept location.

Originally Posted by perseus

(It seems incredible after all this activity that either side did not work out that their cipher had been compromised)

I PMed this to Reiben when he brought up the same point in one of his posts. He did not answer, but it's OK, I was not insulted.... I'm bigger than that.... I don't mind....
Anyway, I sent the following:
It seems that the Allies were as slow in admitting that their ciphers had been broken as were the Germans. But then again, this was one of the few battles of WW II that was fueled by ego. The people working in the cipher departments on both sides were total geniuses, and they hated admitting the possibility that someone else might be smarter than they were. As a result, they were slow in replacing the ciphers. The Allies often suspected, then knew that their ciphers had been broken, but it usually took a while to admit it. The Germans were even slower, and the Japanese were the slowest of all. It was no accident that the Japanese were also the most penetrated.

Dean.

Man, SC 129 did come close. B Deinst did decode two messages about them, and Bletchley did decode the U-Boat response. The only difference was that one group of U-Boats was sent, then when it became clear that the convoy had avoided them, U-Boat HQ sent a different group to a new intercept location.

OK, should I provide the answer, or wait for Reiben or a late finisher to have a chance?

I'm still looking!

Well, I have not found it and for the next few days I will be up to my ears in corrections, so in the interests of moving the quiz along, I have to give up. I don't know about Reiben, but I am officially out of it.

Later, all,

Dean.

I will not be around for a few days, so have left it to Dean

From ‘Engage the enemy more closely’ by Cornelli Barnett

Now occurred the second of the last two great encounters of the Battle of the Atlantic, one in which all the operational and technological threads were aptly woven together. First of all B-Dienst detected the location and course of convoy HX239, so that U-boat command was able to deploy 22 U-boats to attack it. Then GC and CS at Bletchley Park detected the ambush, thus making it possible for the Admiralty to re-route the convoy. But B-Dienst in turn deciphered the details of the re-routing so that U-boat command could accordingly make a fresh deployment of its boats. Now it was up to the seamen of both sides and their weaponry. On the evening before the convoy was actually sighted on 22 May U-boat Command made an almost despairing signal of supposed encouragement to its captains:

If there is anyone who thinks that combating convoys is no longer possible, he is a weakling and no true U-boat captain. The battle of the Atlantic is getting harder but it is the determining element in the waging of the war.

This signal, once decrypted, made astonishing reading for the Admiralty and for western Approaches command. For the first time in history, the victor literally read the mind of the vanquished at that moment when hope dies and the will begins to break. In any case, U-boat Command’s exhortation proved of no avail. For HX239 enjoyed powerful and continuous air cover from the USS Bogue and HMS Archer. The Bogue accounted for the U-569 and the archer for the U-752, three of the Archer’s aircraft having been just fitted with the new air to sea rocket. Not a single merchant ship was sunk.

I’m not sure what the rules are if the question is not answered, but here is one to be getting on with

A large garrison defending this small town was attacked and defeated with help from 4 MkV tanks, 40 000 prisoners were taken. One of the tanks reached the inner trench line and was reputed to play a major part in this action. Perhaps this is the most significant result by a small number of tanks in history.

Name the British captain of the tank that reached the inner trench, the time and place.

Hmmmm... 4 tanks versus 40,000, and the 4 tanks win. Must have been against the Italian Army!

Dean.

(I love fishing!!)

Originally Posted by Dean

Hmmmm... 4 tanks versus 40,000, and the 4 tanks win. Must have been against the Italian Army!

Dean.

(I love fishing!!)

Hehe thats the first thing I thought when I saw the post as well, my guess would be that it has something to do with the 1940- early 41 British campaigns in the Western desert but because of the huge numbers of prisoners taken in that campaign it is difficult to pick a particular battle.

My guess would be Tobruk, Bardia (my strongest hunch as the number of prisoners match up) or Beda Fomm and more than likely the unit is question was an element of the British 7th armoured but I really dont have the resources to go much further into it (and of course may be on the wrong track completely).

It's only fair to make clear the sort of MKV tank I was referring to!