WWI rifles: Who had the best?
BritinBritain
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Actually James Paris Lee was born a Scot.
Born in Hawick, Scotland Lee emigrated with his family to Galt, Ontario in Canada in 1836 at age 5. He built his first gun at the age of 12, using an old horse-pistol barrel, a newly carved walnut stock, and a priming pan made from a halfpenny. The gun failed to function effectively when first fired, but started Lee's interest in gunsmithing and invention.
His bolt and magazine design soon interested British ordnance authorities, and in 1889, after extensive trials, the British Army decided to adopt the Rifle, Magazine, Lee-Metford as a standard issue arm. This in turn developed into the Rifle, Short, Magazine, Lee-Enfield (or SMLE), the standard British service arm for many decades and in official service for nearly a century.
James Paris Lee died in Short Beach, Connecticut on 24 February 1904, having lived to see his rifles in service throughout several Colonial conflicts and the Boer War.
Remington 1858
Active member
No one has mentioned the Canadian Ross rifle. There are many stories about this firearm, the most prominent being that the bolt could be re-assembled incorrectly in such a way that there was danger of the bolt being blown back into the shooter's face. The Canadian troops went to France with this rifle, but switched to the Lee-Enfield. However, the Ross had a reputation for excellent accuracy and was used by Canadian snipers throughout the war.
a straight pull design that worked on the rifle range, but apparently wasn't up to the mud and muck of the trenches. generally considered to be one of the worse WWI guns.
The British 303 Lee Enfield Rifle was invented by an American and only weights 8 pounds? Hum felt heavier than that to me, does that weight include the brass stock for bashing in doors and heads? Wasn't this rifle used even up until WW2?
Remington 1858
Active member
The WWI version of the Lee-Enfield was officially known as; Rifle, Short Magazine Lee -Enfield number 1, mark III. There was also a model known as the mark III* made by a U.S. manufacturer that had a slightly different method of bolt removal, hence the asterisk. In the inter-war period there were a number of experimental models made in order to simplify production, reduce costs, standardize parts. The final production model was Rifle number 4, mark I. This was the WWII version and is easily identified by the short section of barrel protruding from the nose cap. Most, if not all of these rifles were NOT manufactured at Enfield, but at a number of ordnance plants in England and by private makers in Canada and the U.S. The Australians and Indians never adopted the number4 mark I but continued to make the earlier number 1, markIII. Many millions of all marks of these rifles were made, I do not have the exact figures. There was always speculation about what the wild men of the world would do when the last Lee-Enfield was gone. Well. now we know. They switched to the Kalashnikov, perhaps the only firearm that could match the Enfield for ruggedness and reliability
The Lebel doesn't come up much in gun talk, evidently a rifle that did adequate service for an older design.
BritinBritain
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There was a Lee Enfield Number 4 Mk2 as well as a Number 5 Mk1 which was the jungle carbine, the Number 5 was an horrendous rifle, kicked like a mule, blinded the firer because of the shorter barrel and had a wandering zero. I was trained on the Number 4 Mk2 when I joined the Royal Air Force in 1966. In the Far East we were still issued the Number 4 Mk2 (some units were issued the Jungle carbine Number 5 Mk1) until 1968 or 1969 when we got the L1A1.
Lee Enfields were built by BSA, LSA (London Small Arms), Holland and Holland and Fazakerley near Liverpool, RSAF Maltby, Savage in the USA, Canada, India, Australia and South Africa. The Number 1 Mark3 had the magazine cut off fitted, the Number 1 Mk3* had the cut off removed. The asterisk * stood for modified. There were also Number 4 Mk1/2 and Number 4 Mk1/3 as well as many other experimental types. There was a semi automatic Lee Enfield built in New Zealand.
I lived near Enfield Lock when I was a boy and often heard BRENS, Bofors and other types being tested. Enfield Lock had the largest collection of small arms in the world, which was moved when Enfield Lock was closed down.
As quoted James Paris Lee was born in Scotland. The Lee Enfield as I remember it weighed around 11 pounds without ammunition, some Lee Enfields were fitted with aluminium butt plates instead of brass. I was issued the Lee Enfield in the RAF in the Far East until 1968 or 1969.
If any one has a Lee Enfield do NOT use original Mark 7 ammunition, the cordite ruins barrels very quickly.
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Remington 1858
Active member
The rifles produced at the Royal Ordnance Factory Fazakerley were supposedly of low quality because it was a new factory and staffed almost entirely by women, housewives pressed into war work. Despite this slur on the female gender I had an early production rifle made at Fazakerley early in 1942. It was very well made and finished and extremely accurate. It had the brass butt plate, some rather nice wood and a good trigger pull. The Rifle, number 4 mark II had a change to the trigger mechanism. The earlier rifles up to that model had the trigger pinned to the trigger guard. In areas of high humidity the stock would swell and alter the trigger pull. The mark II rifle pivoted the trigger on the upper receiver where it should have been in the first place.
BritinBritain
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The Fazakerly built rifle was without a doubt one of the better built rifles, some considered the Number 1 Mk3* was the best of all. If you study films of the British 8th Army in North Africa and Italy you will notice the vast majority of the Lee Enfields carried were Number 1 Mk3*.