WW11 -  1945.

About WW11 - 1945.


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October 30th, 2007   #1
Del Boy
 

WW11 - 1945. info


1945 ...........Consider the hundreds of thousands stuck in Hitler's concentration camps. It was the Fuhrer's wish that none of them should survive germany's Gotterdammering and his loyal SS guards did their best to ensure they didn't. Sometimes, as in the case of the luxury liner Cap Arcona, they packed thousands of emaciated, terrified prisoners into the bowels of unmarked ships which they knew would be sunk by the Allies. Sometimes they machined -gunned them on the roads to create huge piles of dead to block the Allied advance.

Nor was it much fun to be an Allied soldier. In theory, all the decisive battles had been fought. In practice, the fighting was never nastier or dirtier. Diehard Nazis would pretend to surrender, then blow up their captors with concealed grenades; the SS massacred many of their prisoners, such as the 81 American captives, hands still tied behind their backs, who were notoriously slaughtered at Malmedy.................


Endgame 1945 (David Stafford)

Last edited by Del Boy; October 30th, 2007 at 02:21..
 
October 30th, 2007   #2
LeEnfield
 
 
There were groups of Canadians who were also shot after they had been captured at Normandy. The Germans would also shoot any tank crew they thought had been operating one of the Crocidile Tanks. The problems was the Germans did not have the man power always to deal with prisoners so they got shot.


LeEnfield Rides again

 
October 31st, 2007   #3
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
1945 ...........Consider the hundreds of thousands stuck in Hitler's concentration camps. It was the Fuhrer's wish that none of them should survive germany's Gotterdammering and his loyal SS guards did their best to ensure they didn't. Sometimes, as in the case of the luxury liner Cap Arcona, they packed thousands of emaciated, terrified prisoners into the bowels of unmarked ships which they knew would be sunk by the Allies. Sometimes they machined -gunned them on the roads to create huge piles of dead to block the Allied advance.

Nor was it much fun to be an Allied soldier. In theory, all the decisive battles had been fought. In practice, the fighting was never nastier or dirtier. Diehard Nazis would pretend to surrender, then blow up their captors with concealed grenades; the SS massacred many of their prisoners, such as the 81 American captives, hands still tied behind their backs, who were notoriously slaughtered at Malmedy.................


Endgame 1945 (David Stafford)
Funny you should mention the Cap Arcona as it and the Thielbek were sunk on the same day while flying white flags by the RAF and part of that attack involved strafing the survivors in the water so while the Germans may have had plenty of practice at commiting warcrimes the allies were not entirely blameless as well.

http://thepatrioticgentleman.com/Cap...e-Tragedy.html


Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire 1694-1778
 
October 31st, 2007   #4
LeEnfield
 
 
Most of the RAF people had seen pictures of those concentration camps and as far as they knew the ships were packed with escaping guards, there was little pity in their hearts at that time after all they had seen.
 
October 31st, 2007   #5
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Funny you should mention the Cap Arcona as it and the Thielbek were sunk on the same day while flying white flags by the RAF and part of that attack involved strafing the survivors in the water so while the Germans may have had plenty of practice at commiting warcrimes the allies were not entirely blameless as well.
l

Well, your report is a little confusing. It does not mention white flags, it says that the ships were NOT marked as hospital . See Lee Enfield's last post also.


Quote from your report:-

"The survivors from the sinking who reached the shore were shot by SS troops, although 350 prisoners managed to escape from the massacre. About 490 of the various guards, SS and crew were rescued by German boats".....................

(Is your report Wiki again?)


Sounds like a very confused scene.

See new book Endgame 1945 - Stafford.
 
October 31st, 2007   #6
mmarsh
 
 
All sides commit atrocities.

My Great Uncle was on the "St.-Didier" a French Troopship fleeing Vichy France to North Africa when it was accidentally sunk by Fairey Swordfish Torpedo Bombers off Turkey. While they swimming around in the Med a Bristol Blenheim strafed them in the water killing several survivors.

So you see ALL sides commit massacres.


"My center is giving way, my right is in retreat situation excellent. I shall attack." -Foch

I am from NYC. I fly a French flag because I work in Paris.

Last edited by mmarsh; October 31st, 2007 at 14:09..
 
October 31st, 2007   #7
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
All sides commit atrocities.

Nevertheless, somes sides have a great expertise and commitment, and Endgame 1945 tackles these issues.


Incidently, i would consider it a favour if you did not talk of your great uncles - makes me feel older than ever! Glad he survived, it was nothing personal I'm sure.

Last edited by Del Boy; October 31st, 2007 at 14:34..
 
October 31st, 2007   #8
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Most of the RAF people had seen pictures of those concentration camps and as far as they knew the ships were packed with escaping guards, there was little pity in their hearts at that time after all they had seen.
I have no doubt you are correct however a few months back there was a documentary on this incident which included interviews with survivors and their comments were that they understood the allied need to sink the ships and to a large degree believe that they just saved the Germans the trouble but they were less than happy with survivors being shot in the water by either side.

Lets be realistic here had the Luftwaffe been responsible for this action it would have been a war crime and pursued relentlessly after the war and to be honest this was not the first time the RAF had carried out "dodgy orders" from the British War Cabinet as they were also told to shoot down German rescue aircraft during the battle of Britain even though they were marked with the red cross.

My bad I missed a source:

http://www.battleofbritain.net/0022.html

But there are many to choose from.

Last edited by MontyB; November 1st, 2007 at 01:18..
 
November 1st, 2007   #9
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
.

Lets be realistic here had the Luftwaffe been responsible for this action it would have been a war crime and pursued relentlessly after the war and to be honest this was not the first time the RAF had carried out "dodgy orders" from the British War Cabinet as they were also told to shoot down German rescue aircraft during the battle of Britain even though they were marked with the red cross.


Sources??
 



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