Worst "Commander" of WWII? - Page 4


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December 20th, 2008   #31
papasha40
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
One of the worst commanders has to be General Douglas Haig. During the Anglo Boer War he ordered troops across open ground to attack well dug in Boers.

During the latter part of WW1, Haig was advised to change his tactics as Britain was rapidly running out of men.
Good choice for a bad commander.

During the early fighting from Juno beach to Caen a divisional commander by the name of Major General Rod Keller was the epitome of incompetence. I wont get into his gaffes, but the man bungled most things he touched. Simonds wanted him sacked and so did many others including Montgomery. But Keller survived to cause the deaths of many more Canadian soldiers because, the high commander of the Canadian forces, Harry Crerar was his good friend.
 
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December 20th, 2008   #32
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
One of the worst commanders has to be General Douglas Haig. During the Anglo Boer War he ordered troops across open ground to attack well dug in Boers.

During the latter part of WW1, Haig was advised to change his tactics as Britain was rapidly running out of men.

Only one slight technical glitch here, I think the question is worst commanders of WW2, there is no doubt your choices would rank highly in a worst commanders of the last 100 years list though.


Anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices. - Voltaire 1694-1778
 
December 21st, 2008   #33
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
Only one slight technical glitch here, I think the question is worst commanders of WW2, there is no doubt your choices would rank highly in a worst commanders of the last 100 years list though.

I realised that after I posted, although in my defense he deserves to be mentioned as one of the worst commanders ever.

I will however add another one, this time from WW2, Trafford Leigh Mallory of 12 Group during the Battle of Britain.
Some historians have described Leigh-Mallory as an ambitious intriguer and have portrayed him as pompous and arrogant. Montgomery said that he was a "gutless bugger"


I try to be the man my dog thinks I am.

Last edited by BritinAfrica; December 21st, 2008 at 05:27..
 
December 21st, 2008   #34
papasha40
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BritinAfrica
I realised that after I posted, although in my defense he deserves to be mentioned as one of the worst commanders ever.

I will however add another one, this time from WW2, Trafford Leigh Mallory of 12 Group during the Battle of Britain.
Some historians have described Leigh-Mallory as an ambitious intriguer and have portrayed him as pompous and arrogant. Montgomery said that he was a "gutless bugger"
Didn't get that opinion reading second world war histories. I have read that Leigh-Mallory and Montgomery disliked each other. I suppose detested each other would be closer to the truth.

BritinAfrica, I wouldn't take anything Montgomery said as gospel. The man was a pathological liar.
 
December 21st, 2008   #35
BritinAfrica
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by papasha40
Didn't get that opinion reading second world war histories. I have read that Leigh-Mallory and Montgomery disliked each other. I suppose detested each other would be closer to the truth.

BritinAfrica, I wouldn't take anything Montgomery said as gospel. The man was a pathological liar.

It is often stated that his staff liked him, but his station commanders didn't. He will always be remembered for the part he played with Douglas Bader, in getting Hugh Dowding and Keith Parks fired.

The old saying, “What goes around, comes around.” Keith Parks took over Leigh-Mallory's job after he was killed.
 
March 17th, 2009   #36
GreatestAlive
 
 
Montgomery for terrible planning a not willing to listen to his intelligence officers during operation Market-Garden. Wasted the Red Devils and several thousand other soldiers and civilians uneccesarily.
 
March 18th, 2009   #37
LeEnfield
 
 
What about the errors by Mark Clark, now he gave the American General instructions not to break out of the bridgehead in Salerno until he had enough men and material to the job properly. This gave the Germans enough time to box in the Allied Bridge Head and pound it with artillery.

When Mark Clark Took over the American armies pushing up through Italy he was instructed to forget about Rome and push east across Italy and cut of and destroy the retreating Germans from around Monte Casino. Still Mark Clark went for Rome and had a big parade announcing that he was the first Army Commander to take Rome from the south for two thousand years. In the mean time the German army escaped the trap and the war went on in Italy for almost another year with all the loss of life that it entailed. Mark Clark's excuse was he thought the Germans were in Rome some thing that every one else knew was not true.


LeEnfield Rides again

 
March 18th, 2009   #38
MontyB
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
What about the errors by Mark Clark, now he gave the American General instructions not to break out of the bridgehead in Salerno until he had enough men and material to the job properly. This gave the Germans enough time to box in the Allied Bridge Head and pound it with artillery.

When Mark Clark Took over the American armies pushing up through Italy he was instructed to forget about Rome and push east across Italy and cut of and destroy the retreating Germans from around Monte Casino. Still Mark Clark went for Rome and had a big parade announcing that he was the first Army Commander to take Rome from the south for two thousand years. In the mean time the German army escaped the trap and the war went on in Italy for almost another year with all the loss of life that it entailed. Mark Clark's excuse was he thought the Germans were in Rome some thing that every one else knew was not true.
Yes well I think Mark Clark was more interested in making the news than ending the war (but this could also be attributed to Patton as well if you look at the Taskforce he sent to destruction late in the war to rescue his son in law) and I would certainly rate him as one of the worst western allied commanders or WW2.

My guess is that he realised D-Day was only a few days away and decided to try and get his 15 minutes of fame before that swamped the headlines and in doing so let the entire German army in Italy escape thus ensuring tens of thousands more casualties.


However it is very difficult to out do some of the Italian and Russian commanders in over all incompetence.

Last edited by MontyB; March 18th, 2009 at 19:50..
 
March 19th, 2009   #39
Partisan
 
 
Adolf Hitler gets my vote, obviously politically savvy, but he had an over inflated idea of his ability as a general. Surrounded himself with sycophants and ultimately sowed the seeds of his own demise.
 
March 31st, 2009   #40
jason_420
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Partisan
Adolf Hitler gets my vote, obviously politically savvy, but he had an over inflated idea of his ability as a general. Surrounded himself with sycophants and ultimately sowed the seeds of his own demise.
I think Mussolini beats Hitler as worst in command. I'm just not sure how much he over ruled his commanders on the ground.
 



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