Dear Lord, WHY!!!!!!!

So many brand new conditioned Tokarevs and Makarovs. I hate liberal anti-gun nuts everywhere.

http://ueba.net/hosted_pages/Mass-De...apons-20060608

I don't really understand why that was necessary...

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

Dear Lord, WHY!!!!!!!

So many brand new conditioned Tokarevs and Makarovs. I hate liberal anti-gun nuts everywhere.

http://ueba.net/hosted_pages/Mass-De...apons-20060608

So you contend that this is caused by Estonian anti-gun liberls?

Nothing in the link you posted indicated a "liberal" involvement or are you twisted enough to think that only a liberal would destroy a gun?

Seriously your lack of objectivity and desire to blame everything anytime anywhere on "liberals" really makes it difficult to take you seriously and if the destruction of a few pistols (and like it or not in the scheme of things that was only a few weapons) makes you sick then I really think your priorities are majorly screwed up given everything else that goes on in this world.

Hmmm.... I sell firearms, I build firearms, I carry firearms.

It's how I'm able pay my bills.

And I'm not stating that Estonia is anti-gun liberals. I'm stating that some anti-gun liberal moron destroyed a perfectlly good pistol.

Gee, it cost miney to destroy firearms. Hey, I got an idea. Why not sell them and make a profit off them. The money could be used to fund the education system or maybe help those that need medical insurance.

There is five hundered pistols per box. Let's see, most of these pistols in their current condition would go for something around $200 (USA) for each Makarov and $400 (USA) for each Tokarev. Gee, I wonder how much that is? Hmmm.....

$200,000.00 (USA) per box of TT-33 Tokarev Pistol
$100,000.00 (USA) per box of Makarov Pistol

Now is those photos, there are a ton opf those cases. Why destory a a source of income that could further support your economy?

Firearms are artwork to some and also a source of income to others. To me they're both.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

Hmmm.... I sell firearms, I build firearms, I carry firearms.

It's how I'm able pay my bills.

And I'm not stating that Estonia is anti-gun liberals. I'm stating that some anti-gun liberal moron destroyed a perfectlly good pistol.

What exactly is this based on?
From my point of view there is no information given as to why the weapons are being destroyed.

Gee, it cost miney to destroy firearms. Hey, I got an idea. Why not sell them and make a profit off them. The money could be used to fund the education system or maybe help those that need medical insurance.

Yeah maybe the Palestinian Authority could use a few hell I am sure there are countless shady groups worldwide that would pay for them but then if you own an item you have the right to decide what you do with them and oddly enough destroying them is one option.

Firearms are artwork to some and also a source of income to others. To me they're both.

Thats nifty however these are mass produced general purpose weapons not hand crafted specialist items lets try and put some perspective and reality into the discussion shall we.

So to me rather than making me "sick" to see a "gun" destroyed it really just rates as a "meh whatever" simply because I am sure the Estonian military and police force arent getting rid of much needed weaponry so that they can run around with sticks shouting "bang your dead" and are infact disposing of outdated, unusable or just surplus items.

Well, the only bad thing is, I would've paid for the shipping if only they had called me and asked if I wanted these guns first! It would've been cheaper than destroying them!

I guess you don't collect firearms.

A simple TT-33 Tokarev might be a piece of crap to you. But to others. They are works of art.

The TT-33 has some designs in it from John Browning (God of the gun makers). The Pistol fought against the Germans hordes during WWII and were later used by some against their own communist governments in Afghanistan. It's a great home defense gun and also something good for the truck.

The Makarov is a simple but classic design. A clear copy off the Walther PP series pistol. It's an officers' pistol but also makes a great CCW gun. Affordable to those that can't buy a Sig Sauer or Heckler & Koch. The caliber is a pretty powerful round for something of it's size.


Now Monty, where do you live. Is it in an area that you aren't allowed by your local or national government to own firearms? Do you own any firearms? Do you depend on the government to protect you?

By destorying those pistols. Someone took the ability for someone else to defend themselves. The people of Darfur could really use those pistols for self defense against the Islamic butchers. But the UN wont allow the victims to arm themselves in self defense.

History is the best teacher. By disarming the people, the governm,ent can kill them or allow someone to do it.

Nazis, Communists, and Murderers agree. Gun Control works.

Originally Posted by 5.56X45mm

I guess you don't collect firearms.

A simple TT-33 Tokarev might be a piece of crap to you. But to others. They are works of art.

The TT-33 has some designs in it from John Browning (God of the gun makers). The Pistol fought against the Germans hordes during WWII and were later used by some against their own communist governments in Afghanistan. It's a great home defense gun and also something good for the truck.

The Makarov is a simple but classic design. A clear copy off the Walther PP series pistol. It's an officers' pistol but also makes a great CCW gun. Affordable to those that can't buy a Sig Sauer or Heckler & Koch. The caliber is a pretty powerful round for something of it's size.


Now Monty, where do you live. Is it in an area that you aren't allowed by your local or national government to own firearms? Do you own any firearms? Do you depend on the government to protect you?

By destorying those pistols. Someone took the ability for someone else to defend themselves. The people of Darfur could really use those pistols for self defense against the Islamic butchers. But the UN wont allow the victims to arm themselves in self defense.

History is the best teacher. By disarming the people, the governm,ent can kill them or allow someone to do it.

Nazis, Communists, and Murderers agree. Gun Control works.

Oh give me a break, in the end its a pistol nothing more nothing less and I am sure the last thing former eastern block countries need are another few thousand of them in the hands of the public.

As for myself I am a New Zealander we have probably one of the strictest gun laws in the world and I am more than happy for them to remain even if I am not a huge fan of gun control (believe it or not I accept the argument that people kill people and gun control is a matter of education not restriction) but here firearm restrictions work.

Do I own firearms:
I am one of the few New Zealanders with a collector license and yes I own a few weapons most of them WW2 German and Italian (I got the license becuause my father had a couple of pistols he brought back from WW2 and to keep them I needed the license). However after 2 years in the army and a lot of growing up I really dont have the time or interest in weapons these days.

As for the rest of your post well I really have to say that I think you are somewhat naive if you believe that arming every man and his dog is a great idea and I am really not sure what part of the US you spend time in to develope that level of fear in your own government I know for a fact mine isnt out to kill me and I am pretty sure yours isnt either and besides that I sincerly doubt your 40000 ex-Estonian TT-33s arent going to do jack squat if your government does come after you.

5.56

Do you know where those guns were likely to ended up if they were not destroyed? The Black Market. This is the Eastern Block, and all unsecured weaponry attracts thieves like flies on sh**. Surely as an LEO you should be aganist anything the arms criminals or terrorists. You'd never know if those weapons would someday get pointed in your direction. As for the Torkarav or Marakov being works of art, please. They were massed produced in the thousands by the USSR, its not like they are as common as dirt. The TT-33 was still being manufactured in Serbia as of 10 years ago.

I am for some type gun control (just l favor controls on cars, movies and alcohol), I dont own any weapons because like our friends in NZ, laws here forbid it. But when you have a vast stock of a outdated, dangerous object that has absolutly no future use its best to destroy it than risk it falling it the wrong hands. And that applies to anything.

Besides, with over 20 Millions guns in the US, I doubt there will be a shortage anytime soon.

Still hurts, if only from the point of view of a collector, to see something like that happen. If nothing else, it means that the pistols will be all the more expensive to purchase legally. I've limited myself to East German models, because they're cheaper than their Russian counterparts. Events like this just price the Russian models further and further out of my range.

Somehow I doubt that the situation is as black and white as "if they're not destroyed they'll be sold on the black market." Such situations never are. There are perfectly responsible ways to sell firearms to reliable people. Companies in the US would have stood in line to import those pistols, because they know that collectors, like me, would love a shot at them. These import companies are perfectly legal and monitored by the government. Where's the evil in that?