There is mega hatred across the muslim world for both the US and Israel. I don't think anything is gonna change that. As far as all the muslim nations joining the fight against the US I seriously doubt that will happen. The governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are US friendly I don't think they will wanna screw up their relationship just to fight Israel.

Originally Posted by Easy-8

There is mega hatred across the muslim world for both the US and Israel. I don't think anything is gonna change that. As far as all the muslim nations joining the fight against the US I seriously doubt that will happen. The governments of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are US friendly I don't think they will wanna screw up their relationship just to fight Israel.

You no why that is, the Palestinean issue. If you listen to any Arab leader they will say the overwhelming issue of why Americans are so hated is the Palestinean issue. I think our image would improve if we could make peace broker a peace agreement with the Palestinans. The longest moment of peace in the ME were when the Paletineans and Isrealis were talking to each other, and if Arafat hadn't been so stupid they have actually made peace. But Arafat is dead and his successor Abbas seems much more willing to work out a deal, the problem now is HAMAS, which is worse than Arafat.

In my opinion, the primary reason that the United States and Israel cannot and will not ever conduct any joint military venture anytime soon is simple: The Muslim mindset. They have a super-xenophobic and hyper anti-nonmuslim attitude. Muslims do worse to their fellow Muslims than any nonmuslim entity ever will, yet they barely react to such things. "Just an everyday thing, no big deal." Have any Muslim nations sent help to stop genocide in Sudan? Will they? Why do they seem to not care about Muslim genocide against their fellow Muslims?? But nonmuslim entities like the USA and Israel are given no leniency, period.

I'd have to disagree with MMarsh about needing to engage more in diplomatic talks with the Palestinian leadership. I think that by electing Hamas to preside over their government, the Palestinians have disappointed a lot of advocates of peace and reconciliation throughout the world. But the election of the Hamas government was a direct result of diplomatic dialogue with Israel. Israel agreed to let the Palestinians elect their own government and without Israel's cooperation, it would have never been possible. The Muslims of the world will continue to damn Israel for the Palestinian people's repression, as will the rest of the world. But let's remember that once they were given the chance at Democracy, they elected an organization of genocidal racial bigots to rule over them. That fact makes me quite a bit less sorry for their plight.

As far as seeing a union of all Islam pitted against the United States and Israel, I doubt it. There is far too little trust between neighboring tribes and neighboring nations in the Middle East. The USA and Israel could jointly invade Iran tomorrow and the Muslim world would be pissed. Very pissed. But they would not all unite. The radical elements within Islam would go balistic and we'd see unparallelled levels of worldwide terrorism. But no, they wouldn't unite against us.

Godofthunder

Hamas only controls the Parlement, but Abbas is still president. Abbas has the power to dissolve (he has already threaten to do so, if HAMAS doesnt comply in 10 days) Parlement and call new elections. Abbas is FATAH (who hate Hamas) is willing to deal. Thats what the near-civil war last week was about, one wants to negociate the other doesnt. I agree you cannot deal with HAMAS, but you can with FATAH. Hamas wont last, they have no money and no support outside Palestine (except Iran, and I doubt Ahmadinejab is going to support them forever). The last thing the other arab countries wanr is a Fundimentalist group like Hamas next door to them.

Well, I think it's about time you guys get a look at the guy from the other side of the spectrum.

I am a Muslim. My name is Radwan. In Arabic that means "Defender".

My surprise at this forum's reaction to the Middle East and how they think we'll all just get up and fight them is amazing. I don't want to say it, but I feel as though there are a lot of people here who WANT this to happen. Just want a chance to kill a few Arabs and then walk away and have a few beers later and laugh about it. I don't understand.


Granted, if America began fighting with another Muslim country. (Near and around Israel, not Iran. As Iran is Shiite Muslim and they are crazy, as you can obviously see from their leader Ahmadinejad) There would be much bloodshed over this. Every single time that Muslims ever hear or see foreign influence invading one of their countries. They shake, they have fear. Why? Because, what happened so many hundreds of years ago? What happened?

I'll tell you what happened. The Crusades were going on. And many Muslims were killed. Many were murdered in the streets. In one of the early crusades, people were torn to peices for the thought that they had swallowed Gold Coins to keep from their enemies. So you ask me, what does this matter? Well I'll tell you why. These stories have been passed down of the horrors of the West. How the Europeans have done so much damage to the Muslims.

This is why every time that the Muslims hear about an American invasion, they become fearful. Then angry. You cannot blame us for feeling odd about America. You have to understand this from a cultural view too.

So if Israel invaded another Muslim country, there would be bloodshed. And lots of it. This would not be accepted by the Muslim community. There would be massive fighting. Especially if a religious site were to be descecrated. I must admit, if I was there, and there were enemies marching down my street and were invading my country and I were in that military. I would fight. I would fight like no tommorow. These people, invading MY country? Yeah well I've got two words for you, and they are coming from my gun. POW POW.

I have nothing against America. My dad served in their military. I love this place. Israel? Yes. That is Palestinian land. That was taken from them. If you wanna be fair about giving them back their land? Give them back everything. Don't want to do that? Then cut Jarusalem in half. Give us our part, you take your part.

-Radwan

p.s. Inshallah you will all come away from my post understanding a bit more about the situation in the Middle East. Oh and I almost forgot. No, there wouldn't be a unification. Not unless a religious site had been descecrated. Then you would have a serious problem.

Originally Posted by Radwan

My surprise at this forum's reaction to the Middle East and how they think we'll all just get up and fight them is amazing...


So if Israel invaded another Muslim country, there would be bloodshed. And lots of it. This would not be accepted by the Muslim community...

First you say there will be no fighting, then there will be lots of fighting. What kind of Muslim doublespeak is this?

Secondly, why do the Muslims still have a grudge against the West for something that happened more than 500 years ago? Is this the same kind of irrationality as the doublespeak above?

I just want to add my 2 cents:
Israel and Iran have been pretty close friends when Iran has been under the Shakh.
Israel has very good relations with Turkey.

Radwan,

thank you for your sincere response!
It is very much appreciated.

Gladius.

You sound as though you have a lot of antimosity towards myself, and to muslims in general. Is there some kind of underlying hostility that you want to tell the rest of us?

Maybe I worded it badly. It is my fault. Also, Muslim doublespeak? I'm sorry, but that sounded EXTREMELY racist to me. But whatever.

What I meant to say is that the only reason that there would be bloodshed is if there were a religious object destroyed. That's all I mean. There wouldn't be too much bloodshed if there were an actual reason. As you can see, the Mid East is being taken country by country and nobody is doing too much about it.

Also, every single time that the West messes with the Mid East. It usually has to do with suffering. Which is why there is a mistrust of the West. These things can carry over. Like in China, you think they really like the West either? They're just using the West for economic purposes. And they are using America quite well.

Gladius, I was warned about you from a friend. Heard you can be a hardass. So I'll try and endure. Please, enough with the racy comments. I think we are all capable of being adults about this matter.

-Echo

unless israel is being invaded, and doesnt seem to be able o succesfully defend itself, i dont see the US fighting alongside them. the US is smart in not asking israels help in iraq or afghanistan because this would only increase the dislike of the US. Radwan i agree with most of your posts, but i am not sure of what you mean by this statement: "the Mid East is being taken country by country and nobody is doing too much about it". please elaborate.

America is being involved in the Mid East so much, and invading country by country, what does that show you? It shows you that majority of the populations of the countries that have been invaded don't care much. I mean, sure, they might like/not like being occupied. But no real important Islamic structures have been harmed, am I right? So that is a reason why you don't have MASSIVE fighting. If someone nuked the Ka'bah, or the Dome of the Rock and Israel/America/insert any country claimed responsibilty, there would be MILLIONS flocking to fight. But, it would have to be an important religious place. Or a Prophet's grave. Other than that, I do not see why any of hte people living in these countries would CARE enough to fight. You know what I mean? After being occupied that is.

Nationalism in those countries. Bleh. They don't care.

Religion? Yes. A major factor. I admit, even in my own life, religion is a huge factor. Would I die for religion? I'll be honest, yes. Anyone else who is a devout (insert religion) would probably die for their cause/religion too.