I admit this is just an extract from the english wikipedia, but you can look it up at other places on the net and different libraries as well:

Ben-Gurion recognized the strong attachment of Palestinian Arabs to the land but hoped that this would be overcome in time. In a conversation about "the Arab problem" in 1956, Goldman wrote that Ben-Gurion stated: "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country ... There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it is simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army

Originally Posted by cisco

I admit this is just an extract from the english wikipedia, but you can look it up at other places on the net and different libraries as well:

True, it is also a direct quote from.

Israel's reprisal policy, 1953-1956: the dynamics of military retaliation
By Zeʼev Derori

Unfortunately Zionist inspired thinking and a complete lack of moral backbone on behalf of those who support Israel's aggressive colonial expansion, has completely and deliberately ignored this basic truth.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Well, while we are clearing up these matters, firstly, there is no "Record" and also you do not tell me where I stand in regard to anything. nor am I interested in where my writings might stand in your judgement. So you can get that right out of your head to start with.

Ignoring all your personal bluster re. not being inclined to explain your ambiguity in referring to "my" as opposed to my, and your accusations of ambiguity by others un-named (perhaps you would care to name such examples) , I am obliged to advise you either lie or stand in ignorance in your claim that there is no record of the death-camp victims. Surprising that you are not aware of this, considering your claims of personal family losses.

In fact, for example, the victims of Auschwitz are listed on the records in detail - by name , age etc., removing the necessity for any ambiguity, such as "my" relatives.

I have to assume your motivation in doing so was simply to point the finger at others, craftily.

From a personal point of view, as one who lost many at Auschwitz, including 13 together on the Day of Atonement 1943, I am concerned to ensure that it is clear that I do not fall into the category your ambiguity points to. I am not interested in your affairs, as you suggest, but I am not prepared for your accusation against others un-named to go unchallenged.

Perhaps you should give us your examples of those you accuse of the practice you describe.

Sorry, but remember that YOU introduced this subject into this thread, I have just responded .

Once this point is out of the way, I can get back to the issues others have raised.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

From a personal point of view, as one who lost many at Auschwitz, including 13 together on the Day of Atonement 1943, I am concerned to ensure that it is clear that I do not fall into the category your ambiguity points to

My sincere apologies as German, and as German soldier. If I had been alive at the time I *hope* I would have found the courage to influence on the outcome (but we never know, might have ended up as all the others).

This said, I do not agree at all with the Israeli state policies, seems to me their politicians and movers have learnt a bit from my fathers and use the same ruthless methods, if not to the same extent (not - yet? - industrializing them).

Rattler

Originally Posted by rattler

This said, I do not agree at all with the Israeli state policies, seems to me their politicians and movers have learnt a bit from my fathers and use the same ruthless methods, if not to the same extent (not - yet? - industrializing them).

Actually a professor of mine referred to Israel as softcore 3rd Reich, there is a distinctive difference betwen Nazi Germany and Israel though, Germany at the time was recognized as a racist, fascist state at the same time Israel is not, mainly because its OK if they're just fascist and racist towards Arabs.

Originally Posted by rattler

My sincere apologies as German, and as German soldier. If I had been alive at the time I *hope* I would have found the courage to influence on the outcome (but we never know, might have ended up as all the others).

Rattler

Thank you, but the apology is already taken as read from the German people of today, for whom I have great respect. I was in Hamburg more than once around 1951, and Poland and Czhecko in 1965, Auschwitz etc., on business at a time when I had no idea that the Dutch side of my family all rested there, leaving my grandma in England as the only survivor; she came from a very large family on paternal and maternal sides so the were a great many of them in total on the records. In fact, she had 16 children herself, all English of course, and 12 made it to adulthood.
Therefore I am fully aware and understand all matters relating to WW11, so I do not make that fact an issue; in fact I believe that on this forum is the only place I have mentioned it, and then only because it was relevant, this thread makes it only twice.

It certainly does not stop me from arguing the case for the Israeli claim, and I do not go along with your description of the current situation, but that is not any problem for me, and i would not wish to limit argument, as long as I have the facility to reply here, and I can also make my case. I will continue to do so, and offer whatever I can, and I expect the same to take the same stance of course. Neverthe less, thank you.

Originally Posted by Del Boy

Ignoring all your personal bluster re. not being inclined to explain your ambiguity in referring to "my" as opposed to my, and your accusations of ambiguity by others un-named (perhaps you would care to name such examples) , I am obliged to advise you either lie or stand in ignorance in your claim that there is no record of the death-camp victims. Surprising that you are not aware of this, considering your claims of personal family losses.

In fact, for example, the victims of Auschwitz are listed on the records in detail - by name , age etc., removing the necessity for any ambiguity, such as "my" relatives.

I have to assume your motivation in doing so was simply to point the finger at others, craftily.

From a personal point of view, as one who lost many at Auschwitz, including 13 together on the Day of Atonement 1943, I am concerned to ensure that it is clear that I do not fall into the category your ambiguity points to. I am not interested in your affairs, as you suggest, but I am not prepared for your accusation against others un-named to go unchallenged.

Perhaps you should give us your examples of those you accuse of the practice you describe.

Sorry, but remember that YOU introduced this subject into this thread, I have just responded .

Once this point is out of the way, I can get back to the issues others have raised.

Look Del Boy, I really couldn't give a flying fig for what you think. None of this is "bluster", just my way of replying to your pompous ass answers. What "accusation" are you blithering on about?

I am fully aware that all of this side tracking is merely your way of escaping a losing argument, or trying to get Sherman to lock the thread by getting too far off topic. I've noticed that you have been very quiet regarding the actual subject of the thread since a few truths have been posted.

Originally Posted by senojekips

Mine as in belonging to me personally. Not as in, of my religion, or my ethnicity or whatever some persons like to misconstrue as they usually do when their argument is without any merit whatsoever and they wish to avoid the point.

Well, quite specifically, it refers to the ones you were blethering about in the quote above, Seno. Perhaps we can have examples from you? Anyone we know?

What "accusation"? What you have above is an answer NOT an accusation. You asked a question, I answered, and I'm sure you know at least one of those I'm talking about.

Just as one of those same persons is now attempting to run the thread off the rails with this line of trivia, totally unrelated to the subject.

Either return to the subject or I will totally ignore you. I'm fully aware of your game.

Originally Posted by senojekips

What "accusation"? What you have above is an answer NOT an accusation. You asked a question, I answered, and I'm sure you know at least one of those I'm talking about.

So - you try evade your first specific accusation against un-named , but now see fit to make it now against ' one of those I'm talking about'.
I will ask again - name the person I know who you claim is guilty of that which you have accused them of. Back up your accusation , why don't you.

You yourself took this thread in that direction not me, and having been challenged, start your wriggling off the hook.
.