Hmmm, interesting. I've been reading "Shadow Warriors: with General Carl Stiner (Ret)" By Tom Clancy, 2002 published by Sidgewick & Jackson (ISBN 0-283-07283-0). He claims that they had no forces like the OSS or SOE. e.g. Dropped behind enemy lines to be "disruptive" as such.

He also claims that the soldiers in the units that performed daring raids, the rescue of Musollini etc were just soldiers from regular units, taken out and trained for the job, then sent back to their old regular units once the job was done.

No doubt the Nazis had excellent soldiers and regiments who could be considered "special or specialist" but maybe I used the wrong term. Could I say "covert" perhaps.[/list]

The Brandenburg commando did the same sort of stuff to disrupt behind enemy lines. This falls under the realm of "covert".

"The 800th Battalion was formed on the orders of Canaris to undertake special missions and comprised carefully selected volunteers who were highly trained in commando operations, communications, explosives, sabotage, and demolitions, and other black arts."

"In addition to the usual assortment of bridge seizings, sabotage operations, covert mission behind Soviet lines, and infiltrations staged in Soviet uniforms,..."

"Meanwhile, other Brandenburger teams were active in Afghanistan carrying out intelligence-gathering activities and sabotage against British roads and installations across the border in India."

http://stonebooks.com/archives/980127.shtml

"Their use of foreign uniforms and other tactics were clear violations of the rules of war, but the influence of the Brandenburg Division on later special operations around the world is obvious."

http://www.servicepub.com/ww2_2.html

Well as you can see the Nazi's regular forces did extremely well, and against at least 3 other large countries. Their regular forces were just as good as say some special forces.

Weird though, during both World Wars, the allies started winning only after the United States joined the war.

Originally Posted by rOk

Also the fallschirmjaeger (paratroopers) were considered "special".

LOL good one...

He also claims that the soldiers in the units that performed daring raids, the rescue of Musollini etc were just soldiers from regular units, taken out and trained for the job, then sent back to their old regular units once the job was done

Well... Most of the SF units of the second World War were as they are today... Regular soldiers who met the requirements for Commando training, as in the First Special Service Force (a joint Canadian/American SF group known as the Devils Brigade.) SF were very new to the military at the time and a lot of Conventional Generals thought that they were unnessesary... In the old days many of these commando operations were against all odds so there were huge casualty rates... At the end of a certain campaign, there might not be many men left so as in the 1st special service force, they were disbanded and sent back to their original units. I think many of the units were disbanded because Generals who had wrongfully doubted the idea tried to save face.
The Germans considered that the SS were an Elite fighting force, there were also different units within the SS who were more specialized, I am not to familiar with the different units, but I know that the Gross Deutchland Division a conventionally Elite unit regarded the SS as what we would now think of as Special Forces.

Originally Posted by Pete031

The Germans considered that the SS were an Elite fighting force, there were also different units within the SS who were more specialized, I am not to familiar with the different units, but I know that the Gross Deutchland Division a conventionally Elite unit regarded the SS as what we would now think of as Special Forces.

Grossdeutschland Division was in itself an elite unit, so I doubt it would consider an SS elite unit as Special Forces. In fact, until they proved their worth on the Eastern Front, I imagine that the elite Heer units regarded the Waffen SS as anything but. I could be wrong though and if you have any sources then I'll take a look.

Yeah I said that the Gross Deutshland was elite, but in a more conventional way... If you read the Book "The Forgotten Soldier" it explains it a lot....the Book is By Guy Sajer an Alsatian drafted in the the German army... he then volunteers for the Gross Deutshland later on in the war... He writes very humbly about himself and when he mentions the SS he does so in awe, I tend to believe him... But you can see for yourself... The book is really worth reading

Originally Posted by Locke

iv just finished reading a book on the SAS and sf units and operations and there was a rather spectacular entry where Otto Skorzeny lead a mixture of Waffen SS and parachute troops on an incursion to free Musolini from Allied Forces, in the mountains north of Rome.
its is an awesome story, the odds were strongly against them but, with the element of suprise they succeded. aparently Otto was a firm believer in SF units and thier capabilities

I have read many books about Skorzeny, too bad he was on the German's side, all the things we could have done with a man like that leading an SAS or Rangers Unit.

Originally Posted by Pete031

Yeah I said that the Gross Deutshland was elite, but in a more conventional way... If you read the Book "The Forgotten Soldier" it explains it a lot....the Book is By Guy Sajer an Alsatian drafted in the the German army... he then volunteers for the Gross Deutshland later on in the war... He writes very humbly about himself and when he mentions the SS he does so in awe, I tend to believe him... But you can see for yourself... The book is really worth reading

Interesting. I'll see if I can find a copy.

I don't know if iits been said yet but I read that the Germans had Paratroopers as early as spring 1940.Also they had an elite partisan force known as werwolf partisans.